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RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] 100% Outside

To: <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] 100% Outside
From: "Edward Lyon" <eglyon@xxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:20:06 -0500
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Thread-topic: [EnergyPlus_Support] 100% Outside


back to the jms_dtz issue
 
So the system could be modeled using infiltration to provide the 100%
outside air to the individual zones based on the occupancy schedule, but
if you wanted the fan energy as well you would have to create a dummy
zone with a primary air volume equal to and operating when the
ventilation infiltration is active for the rest of the building....
 
Ned

________________________________

From: Michael J. Witte [mailto:mjwitte@xxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 3:43 PM
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] 100% Outside


The limitation in the current software is that there can only be one
return 
node per zone.  So, a zone can be served by multiple systems, but only
one of 
those systems can be an air loop with a return path.  The other
system(s) must 
be zone equipment (not on an AIR PRIMARY LOOP) which uses supply and
exhaust 
nodes.  The reason for this is that the current structure does not have 
adequate information to determine how to divide the total return flow
from a 
zone among multiple return air nodes.

Mike


On 8 Feb 2005, at 16:14, Edward Lyon wrote:

> 
> So if the structure of the program wants a return, why not provide one
for your
> outside airflow study?  The return can go to a mixing box set for 100%
exhaust. 
> I don't think you have to have an energy penalty for the return duct
flow.
> 
> In the distant future when COMIS and mechanical systems can be
combined, it
> might be nice to just supply air to a space and have it return/exhaust
where it
> finds a place.  I think the bigger problem that should have more
development
> attention now is modeling a common mechanical system design with
several
> supplies to different spaces (zones), but only one common return point
(zone). 
> This is a typical small house or apartment system where supply from
one zone
> must flow through a second (third or fourth sometimes) zone to get to
the
> return.  Mixing and cross mixing doesn't really do the job to simulate
this
> design.  We might have more efficient small house designs if we could
study this
> system to determine better zone flow balances or thermostat
placement.... 
> 
> Ned Lyon, Senior Project Manager
> 
> Simpson Gumpertz & Heger Inc.
> 41 Seyon Street, Bldg 1 Suite 500
> Waltham, Massachusetts  02453
> 
> 781-907-9350
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: fred buhl [mailto:wfbuhl@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tue 2/8/2005 1:56 PM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] 100% Outside
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure this doesn't work right now - although it should. I 
> tried it fairly recently
> and was unsuccessful. You may have to resort to zone equipment of some

> sort. This is
> a serious defficiency which we simply haven't had the time/people to 
> address.
> 
> Fred Buhl
> 
> jms_dtz wrote:
> 
> >Has anyone modeled a 100% outside air system?  I'm trying to provide 
> >assisted ventilation to a vav system based on occupancy.  I've set it

> >up to use direct air to the zones off a second air loop, but I want 
> >to supply outside air without a zone return, and I'm having trouble 
> >setting up the nodes.  Any ideas?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> >http://www.energyplus.gov
> >
> >The group web site is:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> >
> >Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the
appropriate folder
> >in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> > 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
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========================================================
Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
EnergyPlus Testing and Support      
EnergyPlus-Support@xxxxxxxx




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