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[EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Fanger Comfort



There is a variable for hours not comfortable with either winter or
summer clothing 

Field: Time Not Comfortable Summer or Winter Clothes[hr] . 

Especially for passively designed buildings this is a useful tool
since often people might start off the day with 1 clo but then take
off clothes as it heats up and end up with less so you could end up
with winter and summer clothing in one day. Adjusting clothing through
the day is of course a way to allow setpoints to be relaxed too and
save energy on heating and cooling.

One observation on the ASHRAE 55 charts is that I often found that it
is showing conditions as uncomfortable because the humidity level has
gone over the limit when actually the temperature is very comfortable.
For passively cooled buildings this may not be such a good indicator
of discomfort. I am not sure whether it might not be a better
indicator in conditioned buildings. 

--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "kooi" <kooi@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Mike or Linda or Brent, 
> 
>  
> 
> The ASHRAE Standard 55 comfort has different ranges (in humidity and
> temperature) for Winter and Summer.  Correct me if I am wrong, this
is used
> programmed into EnergyPlus to show (in the output files) when
occupants are
> comfortable or not. 
> 
>  
> 
> How about a tropical country where there is no Winter or Summer? I would
> like to classify that the occupants are comfortable only in the range
> overlapped by the ASHRAE 55 Winter and Summer. Presuming that the second
> sentence in the first para is not wrong, what changes do I have to
make to
> output results with this new definition of comfort. 
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you
> 
> ooi
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Griffith, Brent
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:05 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
> 
>  
> 
> Yes, the Fanger Calculations have been compared to ASHRAE Comfort Tool
> and Appendix D of ASHRAE Standard 55. 
> 
> The most common problems I see in EnergyPlus runs that seem to show poor
> PMV results are the following:
> 
> 1. the HVAC system is missing or isn't actually controlling zone
> conditions as expected
> 2. wrong or poor values for the schedules for activity level, air
> velocity, or clo
> 3. the relative humidity can come out unusually low in the winter. 
> 4. the heat balance model does a good job of predicting inside face
> surface temperatures, but this can lead to some surprising results in
> PMV that stem from the radiant temperature terms. 
> 
> I find the following input object helpful for such issues. 
> 
> Report:Table:Monthly,
> 
> Occupant Comfort Data Summary, !- Name
> 
> 3, !- DigitsAfterDecimal
> 
> People Number of Occupants, !- VariableOrMeterName01
> 
> HoursNonZero, !- AggregationType01
> 
> Zone/Sys Air Temperature, !- VariableOrMeterName02
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, !- AggregationType02
> 
> Zone Air Relative Humidity, !- VariableOrMeterName03
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, !- AggregationType03
> 
> ThermalComfortMRT,
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, !- AggregationType03
> 
> Time Not Comfortable Summer Or Winter Clothes, 
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, 
> 
> FANGERPMV, !- VariableOrMeterName04
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown; !- AggregationType04
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@
<mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Doebber
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
> 
> Has the Fanger comfort model been fixed in the V1.3 release and compares
> to the calculation from the ASHRAE Comfort model. This was an error
> that was highlighted months ago. Let me know.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Ian Doebber
> Graduate Mechanical Engineer
> Arup
> 901 Market Street Suite 260 San Francisco CA 94103
> tel: 415-946-0292
> fax: 415-957-9096
> cell: 415-613-4314
> ian.doebber@ <mailto:ian.doebber%40arup.com> arup.com
> <mailto:ian.doebber%40arup.com> 
> www.arup.com
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@
<mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Michael J.
> Witte
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:38 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Further Insight : Skylight / Radiant
> Cooling Strange Behavior
> 
> Ian: 
> 
> If you delete the skylights, does the cooling load on the radiant system
> change 
> by the same order of magnitude as the reported heat gain from the
> skylights? I 
> suspect this may just be a problem with the reported window heat gain
> rather 
> than a real heat balance problem. The reported window heat gain is just
> a side 
> calculation for reporting purposes, that value is not actually used in
> the heat 
> balance.
> 
> Mike
> 
> On 15 Oct 2006 at 15:42, Linda Lawrie wrote:
> 
> > At 04:27 PM 10/13/2006, Griffith, Brent wrote:
> > >I believe this is a known bug (CR6897). But unfortunately it isn't a
> > >quick job and I don't think it was fixed in V1.4 (which is already
> out).
> > 
> > As Brent says, this is a known or suspected problem. If you submit 
> > your file (either send direct to me or upload to the support web 
> > site), it may help our developer in tracking it down.
> > 
> > 
> > Linda
> > 
> > EnergyPlus WebSite: http://www.energypl
<http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov
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> > Member: EnergyPlus Development Team
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
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<http://www.energypl
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> > 
> > The group web site is:
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> 
> ========================================================
> Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
> EnergyPlus Testing and Support 
> EnergyPlus-Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com> gard.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com>
> <mailto:EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com> 
> 
> __________________________________________________________
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