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RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort

To: <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
From: "kooi" <kooi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:55:30 +0800
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Dear Mike or Linda or Brent, 

The ASHRAE Standard 55 comfort has different ranges (in humidity and
temperature) for Winter and Summer.  Correct me if I am wrong, this is used
programmed into EnergyPlus to show (in the output files) when occupants are
comfortable or not. 

How about a tropical country where there is no Winter or Summer? I would
like to classify that the occupants are comfortable only in the range
overlapped by the ASHRAE 55 Winter and Summer. Presuming that the second
sentence in the first para is not wrong, what changes do I have to make to
output results with this new definition of comfort. 

Thank you

ooi

  _____  

From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Griffith, Brent
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:05 AM
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort

Yes, the Fanger Calculations have been compared to ASHRAE Comfort Tool
and Appendix D of ASHRAE Standard 55. 

The most common problems I see in EnergyPlus runs that seem to show poor
PMV results are the following:

1. the HVAC system is missing or isn't actually controlling zone
conditions as expected
2. wrong or poor values for the schedules for activity level, air
velocity, or clo
3. the relative humidity can come out unusually low in the winter. 
4. the heat balance model does a good job of predicting inside face
surface temperatures, but this can lead to some surprising results in
PMV that stem from the radiant temperature terms. 

I find the following input object helpful for such issues. 

Report:Table:Monthly,

Occupant Comfort Data Summary, !- Name

3, !- DigitsAfterDecimal

People Number of Occupants, !- VariableOrMeterName01

HoursNonZero, !- AggregationType01

Zone/Sys Air Temperature, !- VariableOrMeterName02

SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, !- AggregationType02

Zone Air Relative Humidity, !- VariableOrMeterName03

SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, !- AggregationType03

ThermalComfortMRT,

SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, !- AggregationType03

Time Not Comfortable Summer Or Winter Clothes, 

SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, 

FANGERPMV, !- VariableOrMeterName04

SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown; !- AggregationType04

________________________________

From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Doebber
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 2:24 PM
To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort

Has the Fanger comfort model been fixed in the V1.3 release and compares
to the calculation from the ASHRAE Comfort model. This was an error
that was highlighted months ago. Let me know.

Thanks in advance

Ian Doebber
Graduate Mechanical Engineer
Arup
901 Market Street Suite 260 San Francisco CA 94103
tel: 415-946-0292
fax: 415-957-9096
cell: 415-613-4314
ian.doebber@ <mailto:ian.doebber%40arup.com> arup.com
<mailto:ian.doebber%40arup.com> 
www.arup.com

________________________________

From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
<mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
<mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Michael J.
Witte
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:38 AM
To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
<mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Further Insight : Skylight / Radiant
Cooling Strange Behavior

Ian: 

If you delete the skylights, does the cooling load on the radiant system
change 
by the same order of magnitude as the reported heat gain from the
skylights? I 
suspect this may just be a problem with the reported window heat gain
rather 
than a real heat balance problem. The reported window heat gain is just
a side 
calculation for reporting purposes, that value is not actually used in
the heat 
balance.

Mike

On 15 Oct 2006 at 15:42, Linda Lawrie wrote:

> At 04:27 PM 10/13/2006, Griffith, Brent wrote:
> >I believe this is a known bug (CR6897). But unfortunately it isn't a
> >quick job and I don't think it was fixed in V1.4 (which is already
out).
> 
> As Brent says, this is a known or suspected problem. If you submit 
> your file (either send direct to me or upload to the support web 
> site), it may help our developer in tracking it down.
> 
> 
> Linda
> 
> EnergyPlus WebSite: http://www.energypl <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov
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<http://www.energypl <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov <http://www.energypl
<http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov> > 
> Owner: EnergyPlus_Support list
> Member: EnergyPlus Development Team
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> 
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> 
> 
> The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
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> The group web site is:
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========================================================
Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
EnergyPlus Testing and Support 
EnergyPlus-Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com> gard.com
<mailto:EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com>
<mailto:EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com> 

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Follow-Ups:
- [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Fanger Comfort
  - From: carlbauer2000
- RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
  - From: Griffith, Brent

References:
- RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
  - From: Griffith, Brent

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