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RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Fanger Comfort

To: <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Fanger Comfort
From: "kooi" <kooi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:24:06 +0800
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Carlbauer,

 

I would like to contribute, but I am new to E+ (started from v1.2.3). Which
documentation (Module Developer or Programming standard or Interface
Developer) are you referring to? 

 

Is your 'object' in 'People object' the same as 'object' in object-oriented
programming (oop)? I think Fortran is now an oop language. i am not a
programmer but willing to learn. 

 

Regards

ooi  

 

  _____  

From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of carlbauer2000
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:03 PM
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Fanger Comfort

 

Ooi, you need to set up the People object to report the various PMVs
as in the example from the documentation. When you do it I would be
interested to hear how your Fanger compares with the others as I have
been seeing discrepancies between them as I reported in another thread.

PEOPLE, 
People 1, ! Name 
DORM ROOMS AND COMMON AREAS, ! Zone Name 
31.00000 , ! "Maximum" Number of People 
Office Occupancy, ! Occupancy Schedule 
0.6000000 , ! Fraction Radiant 
Activity Sch, ! Activity Level Schedule Name 
zoneaveraged, ! MRT calculation type 
, ! Surface name 
Work Eff Sch, ! Work Efficiency Schedule Name 
Clothing Sch, ! Clothing Insulation Schedule 
Air Velo Sch, ! Air Velocity Schedule 
FANGER , ! Calculate Thermal Comfort Using Fanger Model 
PIERCE , ! Calculate Thermal Comfort Using Pierce Model 
KSU ; ! Calculate Thermal Comfort Using KSU Model 

--- In EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, "kooi" <kooi@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Brent, 
> 
> 
> 
> I see only the Fanger PMV in the last column of the comfort tables.
> 
> 
> 
> How do I 
> 
> (1) use objects like People object (Fanger, Pierce and KSU) 
> 
> (2) use the Fanger model directly? 
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely, 
> 
> Ooi 
> 
> 
> 
> _____ 
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Griffith, Brent
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 12:03 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
> 
> 
> 
> EnergyPlus offers many different ways to report occupant comfort. In
> addition to the ASHRAE 55 report variables, there are three different
> comfort models available through the People object (Fanger, Pierce,
> KSU). I think the ASHRAE 55 summer/winter ranges are derived from using
> the Fanger model with different clothing levels for summer or winter.
> If you use the Fanger model directly then you have full control over the
> amount of clothing by scheduling for the levels for "clo." 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@
<mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kooi
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:56 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
> 
> Dear Mike or Linda or Brent, 
> 
> The ASHRAE Standard 55 comfort has different ranges (in humidity and
> temperature) for Winter and Summer. Correct me if I am wrong, this is
> used
> programmed into EnergyPlus to show (in the output files) when occupants
> are
> comfortable or not. 
> 
> How about a tropical country where there is no Winter or Summer? I would
> like to classify that the occupants are comfortable only in the range
> overlapped by the ASHRAE 55 Winter and Summer. Presuming that the second
> sentence in the first para is not wrong, what changes do I have to make
> to
> output results with this new definition of comfort. 
> 
> Thank you
> 
> ooi
> 
> _____ 
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@
<mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Griffith,
> Brent
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:05 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
> 
> Yes, the Fanger Calculations have been compared to ASHRAE Comfort Tool
> and Appendix D of ASHRAE Standard 55. 
> 
> The most common problems I see in EnergyPlus runs that seem to show poor
> PMV results are the following:
> 
> 1. the HVAC system is missing or isn't actually controlling zone
> conditions as expected
> 2. wrong or poor values for the schedules for activity level, air
> velocity, or clo
> 3. the relative humidity can come out unusually low in the winter. 
> 4. the heat balance model does a good job of predicting inside face
> surface temperatures, but this can lead to some surprising results in
> PMV that stem from the radiant temperature terms. 
> 
> I find the following input object helpful for such issues. 
> 
> Report:Table:Monthly,
> 
> Occupant Comfort Data Summary, !- Name
> 
> 3, !- DigitsAfterDecimal
> 
> People Number of Occupants, !- VariableOrMeterName01
> 
> HoursNonZero, !- AggregationType01
> 
> Zone/Sys Air Temperature, !- VariableOrMeterName02
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, !- AggregationType02
> 
> Zone Air Relative Humidity, !- VariableOrMeterName03
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, !- AggregationType03
> 
> ThermalComfortMRT,
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, !- AggregationType03
> 
> Time Not Comfortable Summer Or Winter Clothes, 
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, 
> 
> FANGERPMV, !- VariableOrMeterName04
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown; !- AggregationType04
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Doebber
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
> 
> Has the Fanger comfort model been fixed in the V1.3 release and compares
> to the calculation from the ASHRAE Comfort model. This was an error
> that was highlighted months ago. Let me know.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Ian Doebber
> Graduate Mechanical Engineer
> Arup
> 901 Market Street Suite 260 San Francisco CA 94103
> tel: 415-946-0292
> fax: 415-957-9096
> cell: 415-613-4314
> ian.doebber@ <mailto:ian.doebber%40arup.com> arup.com
> <mailto:ian.doebber%40arup.com> 
> www.arup.com
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Michael J.
> Witte
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:38 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Further Insight : Skylight / Radiant
> Cooling Strange Behavior
> 
> Ian: 
> 
> If you delete the skylights, does the cooling load on the radiant system
> change 
> by the same order of magnitude as the reported heat gain from the
> skylights? I 
> suspect this may just be a problem with the reported window heat gain
> rather 
> than a real heat balance problem. The reported window heat gain is just
> a side 
> calculation for reporting purposes, that value is not actually used in
> the heat 
> balance.
> 
> Mike
> 
> On 15 Oct 2006 at 15:42, Linda Lawrie wrote:
> 
> > At 04:27 PM 10/13/2006, Griffith, Brent wrote:
> > >I believe this is a known bug (CR6897). But unfortunately it isn't a
> > >quick job and I don't think it was fixed in V1.4 (which is already
> out).
> > 
> > As Brent says, this is a known or suspected problem. If you submit 
> > your file (either send direct to me or upload to the support web 
> > site), it may help our developer in tracking it down.
> > 
> > 
> > Linda
> > 
> > EnergyPlus WebSite: http://www.energypl <http://www.energypl
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> 
> > Owner: EnergyPlus_Support list
> > Member: EnergyPlus Development Team
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> > 
> > 
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> > 
> > The group web site is:
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> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> > 
> > 
> 
> ========================================================
> Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
> EnergyPlus Testing and Support 
> EnergyPlus-Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com> gard.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com>
> <mailto:EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com> 
> 
> __________________________________________________________
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