[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Fanger Comfort



Ooi, you need to set up the People object to report the various PMVs
as in the example from the documentation. When you do it I would be
interested to hear how your Fanger compares with the others as I have
been seeing discrepancies between them as I reported in another thread.

PEOPLE,  
   People 1,      ! Name 
   DORM ROOMS AND COMMON AREAS, ! Zone Name 
   31.00000    ,  ! "Maximum" Number of People 
   Office Occupancy,  ! Occupancy Schedule 
  0.6000000    ,  ! Fraction Radiant 
   Activity Sch,  ! Activity Level Schedule Name 
   zoneaveraged,  ! MRT calculation type  
    ,             ! Surface name 
   Work Eff Sch,  ! Work Efficiency Schedule Name 
   Clothing Sch,  ! Clothing Insulation Schedule 
   Air Velo Sch,  ! Air Velocity Schedule 
   FANGER      ,  ! Calculate Thermal Comfort Using Fanger Model 
   PIERCE      ,  ! Calculate Thermal Comfort Using Pierce Model 
   KSU         ;  ! Calculate Thermal Comfort Using KSU Model 

--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "kooi" <kooi@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Brent, 
> 
>  
> 
> I see only the Fanger PMV in the last column of the comfort tables.
> 
>  
> 
> How do I 
> 
> (1)     use objects like People object (Fanger, Pierce and KSU) 
> 
> (2)     use the Fanger model directly? 
> 
>  
> 
> Sincerely, 
> 
> Ooi  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Griffith, Brent
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 12:03 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
> 
>  
> 
> EnergyPlus offers many different ways to report occupant comfort. In
> addition to the ASHRAE 55 report variables, there are three different
> comfort models available through the People object (Fanger, Pierce,
> KSU). I think the ASHRAE 55 summer/winter ranges are derived from using
> the Fanger model with different clothing levels for summer or winter.
> If you use the Fanger model directly then you have full control over the
> amount of clothing by scheduling for the levels for "clo." 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@
<mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kooi
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:56 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
> 
> Dear Mike or Linda or Brent, 
> 
> The ASHRAE Standard 55 comfort has different ranges (in humidity and
> temperature) for Winter and Summer. Correct me if I am wrong, this is
> used
> programmed into EnergyPlus to show (in the output files) when occupants
> are
> comfortable or not. 
> 
> How about a tropical country where there is no Winter or Summer? I would
> like to classify that the occupants are comfortable only in the range
> overlapped by the ASHRAE 55 Winter and Summer. Presuming that the second
> sentence in the first para is not wrong, what changes do I have to make
> to
> output results with this new definition of comfort. 
> 
> Thank you
> 
> ooi
> 
> _____ 
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@
<mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Griffith,
> Brent
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:05 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
> 
> Yes, the Fanger Calculations have been compared to ASHRAE Comfort Tool
> and Appendix D of ASHRAE Standard 55. 
> 
> The most common problems I see in EnergyPlus runs that seem to show poor
> PMV results are the following:
> 
> 1. the HVAC system is missing or isn't actually controlling zone
> conditions as expected
> 2. wrong or poor values for the schedules for activity level, air
> velocity, or clo
> 3. the relative humidity can come out unusually low in the winter. 
> 4. the heat balance model does a good job of predicting inside face
> surface temperatures, but this can lead to some surprising results in
> PMV that stem from the radiant temperature terms. 
> 
> I find the following input object helpful for such issues. 
> 
> Report:Table:Monthly,
> 
> Occupant Comfort Data Summary, !- Name
> 
> 3, !- DigitsAfterDecimal
> 
> People Number of Occupants, !- VariableOrMeterName01
> 
> HoursNonZero, !- AggregationType01
> 
> Zone/Sys Air Temperature, !- VariableOrMeterName02
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, !- AggregationType02
> 
> Zone Air Relative Humidity, !- VariableOrMeterName03
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, !- AggregationType03
> 
> ThermalComfortMRT,
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, !- AggregationType03
> 
> Time Not Comfortable Summer Or Winter Clothes, 
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown, 
> 
> FANGERPMV, !- VariableOrMeterName04
> 
> SumOrAverageDuringHoursShown; !- AggregationType04
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Doebber
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fanger Comfort
> 
> Has the Fanger comfort model been fixed in the V1.3 release and compares
> to the calculation from the ASHRAE Comfort model. This was an error
> that was highlighted months ago. Let me know.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Ian Doebber
> Graduate Mechanical Engineer
> Arup
> 901 Market Street Suite 260 San Francisco CA 94103
> tel: 415-946-0292
> fax: 415-957-9096
> cell: 415-613-4314
> ian.doebber@ <mailto:ian.doebber%40arup.com> arup.com
> <mailto:ian.doebber%40arup.com> 
> www.arup.com
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Michael J.
> Witte
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:38 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Further Insight : Skylight / Radiant
> Cooling Strange Behavior
> 
> Ian: 
> 
> If you delete the skylights, does the cooling load on the radiant system
> change 
> by the same order of magnitude as the reported heat gain from the
> skylights? I 
> suspect this may just be a problem with the reported window heat gain
> rather 
> than a real heat balance problem. The reported window heat gain is just
> a side 
> calculation for reporting purposes, that value is not actually used in
> the heat 
> balance.
> 
> Mike
> 
> On 15 Oct 2006 at 15:42, Linda Lawrie wrote:
> 
> > At 04:27 PM 10/13/2006, Griffith, Brent wrote:
> > >I believe this is a known bug (CR6897). But unfortunately it isn't a
> > >quick job and I don't think it was fixed in V1.4 (which is already
> out).
> > 
> > As Brent says, this is a known or suspected problem. If you submit 
> > your file (either send direct to me or upload to the support web 
> > site), it may help our developer in tracking it down.
> > 
> > 
> > Linda
> > 
> > EnergyPlus WebSite: http://www.energypl <http://www.energypl
> <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov
> <http://www.energypl <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov> > us.gov
> <http://www.energypl <http://www.energypl
<http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov
> <http://www.energypl <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov> > us.gov> 
> <http://www.energypl <http://www.energypl
<http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov
> <http://www.energypl <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov> > us.gov
> <http://www.energypl
> <http://www.energypl <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov
<http://www.energypl
> <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov> > us.gov> > 
> > Owner: EnergyPlus_Support list
> > Member: EnergyPlus Development Team
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > http://www.energypl <http://www.energypl <http://www.energyplus.gov>
> us.gov
> <http://www.energypl <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov> > us.gov
> <http://www.energypl <http://www.energypl
<http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov
> <http://www.energypl <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov> > us.gov>
> <http://www.energypl <http://www.energypl
<http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov
> <http://www.energypl <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov> > us.gov
> <http://www.energypl
> <http://www.energypl <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov
<http://www.energypl
> <http://www.energyplus.gov> us.gov> > us.gov> > 
> > 
> > The group web site is:
> > http://groups. <http://groups.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/>
> yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/>
> yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/> >
> yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> <http://groups. <http://groups.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/>
> yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/>
> yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/> >
> yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/> 
> <http://groups. <http://groups.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/>
> yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/>
> yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/> >
> yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> <http://groups. <http://groups.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/>
> yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/>
> yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/> >
> yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/> > 
> > 
> > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the
> appropriate folder
> > in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> > 
> > EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.idf and
> press the
> > "search" button.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> ========================================================
> Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
> EnergyPlus Testing and Support 
> EnergyPlus-Support@ <mailto:EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com> gard.com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com>
> <mailto:EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com> 
> 
> __________________________________________________________
> Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
> systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov

The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/

Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the appropriate folder in the Files area of the Support Web Site.

EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable.  Open EPlusMainMenu.idf and press the "search" button.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:EnergyPlus_Support-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    mailto:EnergyPlus_Support-fullfeatured@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/