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[EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Does EnergyPlus support daylighting through internal windows in floors?

To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Does EnergyPlus support daylighting through internal windows in floors?
From: "lawrenceblount" <lawrenceblount@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:47:43 -0000
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Hi Rob,

Thank you for your help.

Lawrence


--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Rob Hitchcock 
<RJHitchcock@...> wrote:
>
> Lawrence,
> 
> The problem is that any internal window in your attic floor will 
cause 
> direct beam to reach daylighting reference points in your ground 
floor 
> zone that are in line with your skylights and the sun.
> 
> As indicated earlier, the schedule for EnergyPlus releases is found 
at:
> 
> http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/schedule.html 
> <http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/schedule.html>
> 
> The next release is scheduled for October 2007.
> 
> Rob
> ==========
> lawrenceblount wrote:
> 
> > Hi Rob,
> >
> > Would it be practical for me to change the geometry of my 
building to
> > avoid the error? Eg. avoid the roof touching the midfloor
> >
> > Any estimates on when V2.1 is likely to be released?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Lawrence
> >
> > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Hitchcock
> > <RJHitchcock@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Windows in internal walls will have the same problem until V2.1 
is
> > > available. The error is less likely to occur for the geometry of
> > > internal wall windows, than for the geometry of your building
> > model, but
> > > it still can occur.
> > >
> > > Rob
> > > ===========
> > > lawrenceblount wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Rob,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for finding the bug. I was beginning to think I was
> > going
> > > > around the bend.
> > > > Do windows in internal walls work okay?
> > > > How often are updates to the E+ released?
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Lawrence
> > > >
> > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Hitchcock
> > > > <RJHitchcock@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Lawrence,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have found a bug in the code related to this issue. The
> > problem,
> > > > as
> > > > > you deduced, is that the mere presence of an interior window
> > causes
> > > > beam
> > > > > solar to be added to reference point, and illuminance map 
point,
> > > > > illuminance totals, even if there is not an unobstructed 
line of
> > > > site
> > > > > from the reference point to the sun.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We will get a 
fix
> > > > into
> > > > > the upcoming release.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rob Hitchcock
> > > > > =========
> > > > > lawrenceblount wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Even if you are not sure why I getting beam solar through 
the
> > > > opaque
> > > > > > midfloor, could anyone suggest some changes that I could 
try?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards
> > > > > > Lawrence
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>, "lawrenceblount"
> > > > > > <lawrenceblount@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Rob,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am keen to learn what you find out.
> > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > Lawrence
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob 
Hitchcock
> > > > > > > <RJHitchcock@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Lawrence,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sorry for the delay. There does seem to be something
> > puzzling
> > > > > > > here.
> > > > > > > > I'm looking into it further.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rob
> > > > > > > > ========
> > > > > > > > lawrenceblount wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Rob,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you for your comments.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The issue I have is that the direct beam solar is
> > actually
> > > > > > passing
> > > > > > > > > through the midfloor not where the window is 
placed. The
> > > > window
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > 900mm deep and placed near and along the south 
wall. I
> > can
> > > > > > clearly
> > > > > > > > > trace the high intensity light spots from the 
skylights
> > > > through
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > opaque part of the midfloor down onto the lower 
floor.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > > > Lawrence
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob
> > Hitchcock
> > > > > > > > > <RJHitchcock@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Lawrence,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what you think is wrong with what 
you are
> > > > > > seeing.
> > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > correctly understand your description below, with 
an
> > > > internal
> > > > > > > > > window in
> > > > > > > > > > the floor between the upper zone with skylights 
and
> > the
> > > > lower
> > > > > > > zone,
> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > see light transmitted between the zones. Without 
the
> > > > internal
> > > > > > > > > window
> > > > > > > > > > you do not see light transmitted between the 
zones.
> > Isn't
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > > what you
> > > > > > > > > > would expect?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Rob
> > > > > > > > > > ========
> > > > > > > > > > lawrenceblount wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike and all,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your comments.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I have uploaded a folder named "Midfloor window"
> > with 3
> > > > idf
> > > > > > > and my
> > > > > > > > > > > weather file. The names are hopefully self
> > explanatory.
> > > > If
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > open
> > > > > > > > > > > the *MAP.csv files and generate a surface in 
Excel
> > for 1
> > > > > > > January
> > > > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > > > 10am, I get light spots on the lower floor from 
the
> > > > > > skylights
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > > > the midfloor window is present. If I use the 
file
> > > > without
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > midfloor window (the only change), I only get 
the
> > > > lighting
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > lower level north window. The idf is setup to
> > output the
> > > > > > dxf
> > > > > > > file
> > > > > > > > > > > for you to view my model.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I really appreciate if anyone can see where I 
have
> > gone
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>, "Michael
> > > > J.
> > > > > > > Witte"
> > > > > > > > > > > <mjwitte@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to transmit solar from one zone to
> > > > another,
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > must
> > > > > > > > > > > use a pair of
> > > > > > > > > > > > interior windows as you suggest. This will
> > transmit
> > > > both
> > > > > > > beam
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > diffuse
> > > > > > > > > > > > between zones, but once the solar enters the
> > second
> > > > zone
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > > treated as
> > > > > > > > > > > > diffuse. Search the Input Output Reference
> > > > for "interior
> > > > > > > window"
> > > > > > > > > > > for more
> > > > > > > > > > > > information.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The amount of solar transmitted from the attic
> > zone to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > zone
> > > > > > > > > > > below should be
> > > > > > > > > > > > proportional to the size of the interior 
window,
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > remaining
> > > > > > > > > > > attic floor
> > > > > > > > > > > > area should be opaque. If you are seeing 
something
> > > > other
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > > this, please
> > > > > > > > > > > > upload input files to the yahoo files area or 
send
> > > > zipped
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > energyplus-
> > > > > > > > > > > > support@
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Aug 2007 at 9:36, lawrenceblount wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am fairly new to EnergyPlus, although I 
have
> > used
> > > > > > > Ecotect
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > Tas
> > > > > > > > > > > > > before.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a light well that is effectively a
> > window in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > floor
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > > > attic space. The attic has some skylights.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am finding that when I add a matching 
pair of
> > > > windows
> > > > > > > to the
> > > > > > > > > > > internal
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ceiling and floor objects that the whole
> > midefloor
> > > > > > becomes
> > > > > > > > > > > transparent
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to direct solar. If I remove the internal
> > windows
> > > > the
> > > > > > > midfloor
> > > > > > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > > > > > becomes completely opaque.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like comments as to whether I am 
likely
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > > > errors or this function is outside the
> > capability of
> > > > > > E+.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > capability
> > > > > > > > > > > > > is available in wall elements.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
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> > > > > > > > > <http://www.energyplus.gov 
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> > > > > > > > > > > > >
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> > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=50284/*http://finance.yahoo.com/>
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> > >
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578/D=groups/S=1705007389:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1187991506/A=3848644/R=0/SIG=
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> > <http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?>
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> > > > o=US2006&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups5&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50>
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> > 
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jr67gem/M=493064.10729657.11333348.8674
>
> > >
> > > >
> > 
578/D=groups/S=1705007389:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1187991506/A=4025304/R=0/SIG=
> > > >
> > 
12uhb64pb/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yaho
 
> > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yaho>
> >
> > > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yaho 
> > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yaho>>
> > > > o.com/webhosting/sitebuilding.php>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > quickly & easily
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> > > > > > with Sitebuilder.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > .
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >  
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Robert J. Hitchcock, Ph.D.
> Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
> 1 Cyclotron Road, Mailstop 90-3111
> Berkeley, CA  94720
> 
> RJHitchcock@...
> 530.295.9433 (telecommute office)
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




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