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Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Does EnergyPlus support daylighting through internal windows in floors?

To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Does EnergyPlus support daylighting through internal windows in floors?
From: Rob Hitchcock <RJHitchcock@xxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:49:33 -0700
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Lawrence,

The problem is that any internal window in your attic floor will cause 
direct beam to reach daylighting reference points in your ground floor 
zone that are in line with your skylights and the sun.

As indicated earlier, the schedule for EnergyPlus releases is found at:

http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/schedule.html 
<http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/schedule.html>

The next release is scheduled for October 2007.

Rob
==========
lawrenceblount wrote:

> Hi Rob,
>
> Would it be practical for me to change the geometry of my building to
> avoid the error? Eg. avoid the roof touching the midfloor
>
> Any estimates on when V2.1 is likely to be released?
>
> Cheers
> Lawrence
>
> --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Hitchcock
> <RJHitchcock@...> wrote:
> >
> > Windows in internal walls will have the same problem until V2.1 is
> > available. The error is less likely to occur for the geometry of
> > internal wall windows, than for the geometry of your building
> model, but
> > it still can occur.
> >
> > Rob
> > ===========
> > lawrenceblount wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Rob,
> > >
> > > Thank you for finding the bug. I was beginning to think I was
> going
> > > around the bend.
> > > Do windows in internal walls work okay?
> > > How often are updates to the E+ released?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Lawrence
> > >
> > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Hitchcock
> > > <RJHitchcock@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Lawrence,
> > > >
> > > > I have found a bug in the code related to this issue. The
> problem,
> > > as
> > > > you deduced, is that the mere presence of an interior window
> causes
> > > beam
> > > > solar to be added to reference point, and illuminance map point,
> > > > illuminance totals, even if there is not an unobstructed line of
> > > site
> > > > from the reference point to the sun.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We will get a fix
> > > into
> > > > the upcoming release.
> > > >
> > > > Rob Hitchcock
> > > > =========
> > > > lawrenceblount wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Even if you are not sure why I getting beam solar through the
> > > opaque
> > > > > midfloor, could anyone suggest some changes that I could try?
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards
> > > > > Lawrence
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%
> 40yahoogroups.com>, "lawrenceblount"
> > > > > <lawrenceblount@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Rob,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am keen to learn what you find out.
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > Lawrence
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Hitchcock
> > > > > > <RJHitchcock@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lawrence,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sorry for the delay. There does seem to be something
> puzzling
> > > > > > here.
> > > > > > > I'm looking into it further.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rob
> > > > > > > ========
> > > > > > > lawrenceblount wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Rob,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you for your comments.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The issue I have is that the direct beam solar is
> actually
> > > > > passing
> > > > > > > > through the midfloor not where the window is placed. The
> > > window
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > 900mm deep and placed near and along the south wall. I
> can
> > > > > clearly
> > > > > > > > trace the high intensity light spots from the skylights
> > > through
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > opaque part of the midfloor down onto the lower floor.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > > Lawrence
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob
> Hitchcock
> > > > > > > > <RJHitchcock@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Lawrence,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what you think is wrong with what you are
> > > > > seeing.
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > correctly understand your description below, with an
> > > internal
> > > > > > > > window in
> > > > > > > > > the floor between the upper zone with skylights and
> the
> > > lower
> > > > > > zone,
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > see light transmitted between the zones. Without the
> > > internal
> > > > > > > > window
> > > > > > > > > you do not see light transmitted between the zones.
> Isn't
> > > this
> > > > > > > > what you
> > > > > > > > > would expect?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Rob
> > > > > > > > > ========
> > > > > > > > > lawrenceblount wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike and all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your comments.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I have uploaded a folder named "Midfloor window"
> with 3
> > > idf
> > > > > > and my
> > > > > > > > > > weather file. The names are hopefully self
> explanatory.
> > > If
> > > > > I
> > > > > > open
> > > > > > > > > > the *MAP.csv files and generate a surface in Excel
> for 1
> > > > > > January
> > > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > > 10am, I get light spots on the lower floor from the
> > > > > skylights
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > > the midfloor window is present. If I use the file
> > > without
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > midfloor window (the only change), I only get the
> > > lighting
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > lower level north window. The idf is setup to
> output the
> > > > > dxf
> > > > > > file
> > > > > > > > > > for you to view my model.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I really appreciate if anyone can see where I have
> gone
> > > > > wrong.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > > Lawrence
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%
> 40yahoogroups.com>, "Michael
> > > J.
> > > > > > Witte"
> > > > > > > > > > <mjwitte@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If you want to transmit solar from one zone to
> > > another,
> > > > > you
> > > > > > must
> > > > > > > > > > use a pair of
> > > > > > > > > > > interior windows as you suggest. This will
> transmit
> > > both
> > > > > > beam
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > diffuse
> > > > > > > > > > > between zones, but once the solar enters the
> second
> > > zone
> > > > > it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > treated as
> > > > > > > > > > > diffuse. Search the Input Output Reference
> > > for "interior
> > > > > > window"
> > > > > > > > > > for more
> > > > > > > > > > > information.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The amount of solar transmitted from the attic
> zone to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > zone
> > > > > > > > > > below should be
> > > > > > > > > > > proportional to the size of the interior window,
> and
> > > the
> > > > > > > > remaining
> > > > > > > > > > attic floor
> > > > > > > > > > > area should be opaque. If you are seeing something
> > > other
> > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > this, please
> > > > > > > > > > > upload input files to the yahoo files area or send
> > > zipped
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > energyplus-
> > > > > > > > > > > support@
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Aug 2007 at 9:36, lawrenceblount wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I am fairly new to EnergyPlus, although I have
> used
> > > > > > Ecotect
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > Tas
> > > > > > > > > > > > before.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have a light well that is effectively a
> window in
> > > the
> > > > > > floor
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > > attic space. The attic has some skylights.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I am finding that when I add a matching pair of
> > > windows
> > > > > > to the
> > > > > > > > > > internal
> > > > > > > > > > > > ceiling and floor objects that the whole
> midefloor
> > > > > becomes
> > > > > > > > > > transparent
> > > > > > > > > > > > to direct solar. If I remove the internal
> windows
> > > the
> > > > > > midfloor
> > > > > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > > > > becomes completely opaque.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I would like comments as to whether I am likely
> to
> > > be
> > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > > errors or this function is outside the
> capability of
> > > > > E+.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > capability
> > > > > > > > > > > > is available in wall elements.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
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> <http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?>
> > > <http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php? 
> <http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?>>
> > > o=US2006&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups5&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50>
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> >
> > >
> 578/D=groups/S=1705007389:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1187991506/A=4025304/R=0/SIG=
> > >
> 12uhb64pb/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yaho 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yaho>
>
> > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yaho 
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  


-- 

Robert J. Hitchcock, Ph.D.
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
1 Cyclotron Road, Mailstop 90-3111
Berkeley, CA  94720

RJHitchcock@xxxxxxx
530.295.9433 (telecommute office)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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