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Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Suspended radiant panels
No. That is not usually a problem. But the combination of an embedded radiant
system and an interzone surface fully in the same zone is probably untested
territory. Please send or upload an input file so we can determine if it's a
program error or fixable through input.
Mike
On 12 Dec 2007 at 15:59, Josh K wrote:
> Hey Michael;
>
> The problem I'm having is that the "interzone surfaces are usually in a
> different zone" message doesn't come in the context of a warning, but that
> of an error. Specifically:
>
> ** Severe ** CAUTION -- Interzone surfaces are usually in different
> zones
> ** ~~~ ** Surface=OBJ:0025, Zone=ZONE_1
> ** ~~~ ** Surface=OBJ:0026, Zone=ZONE_1
>
> When I model the system like this, the simulation won't run. Do interzone
> surfaces being in the same zone *usually* crash the simulation?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2007 11:59 AM, Michael J. Witte <mjwitte@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Using the adiabatic approach will not result in radiant transfer from
> > the top
> > side of the radiant panel to the ceiling of the zone. Adiabatic surfaces
> > simply model the inside face heat balance and then set the opposite side
> > temperature to the same value. The other side of the surface is not
> > modeled
> > and is not present in any zone.
> >
> > You need to go with the pair of interzone surfaces. In doing so, you can
> > ignore "interzone durfaces are usually in different zone" warning. It's
> > just
> > there to warn that what you've described might be a mistake (an easy
> > mistake to
> > make if you copy the first surface to create the opposite surface and
> > forget to
> > change the zone name if you really intend this to sit between two zones). This
> > configuration will simulate both sides as active surfaces in the zone.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > On 5 Dec 2007 at 19:51, josh_miarch wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Mike;
> > >
> > > I'm also doing a simulation with a suspended radiant panel, and I've
> > > found that if I define another opposite-facing surface and connect it
> > > as an "interzone" surface with the radiant surface, I either get a
> > > bunch of "heat balance did not converge" warning messages, or an
> > > "Interzone surfaces are usually in different zones" error message,
> > > depending on how I specify the constructions of the hydronic surface
> > > and its backing.
> > >
> > > However, if I specify the radiant surface as one would an adiabatic
> > > surface (ie OtherZoneSurface = itself), I seem to get reasonable
> > results.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts on this?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
> > > EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Michael J. Witte"
> > > <mjwitte@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 1. I suppose you could describe a surface which is positioned as
> > > thought it is
> > > > supsended. This would have to be a pair of surfaces (one facing up
> > > and one
> > > > facing down) which are connected as "interzone" surfaces even though
> > > both are
> > > > in the same zone. But understand that the radiant view factor
> > > calculations are
> > > > not full 3-D. View factors are affected by azimuths and tilts, but
> > > position in
> > > > the zone does not matter. If the radiant panels are electric, you
> > > could use
> > > > the high temperature radiant model (HIGH TEMP RADIANT SYSTEM) and
> > > specify the
> > > > view factors directly.
> > > >
> > > > 2. Low temp radiant systems are only valid on base surfaces (not
> > > subsurfaces,
> > > > no internal mass). You would need to describe the ceiling as two or
> > > more
> > > > SURFACE:HEATRANSFER objects, one with the area of the radiant panel,
> > > and one
> > > > with the remaining ceiling area.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 5 Sep 2007 at 13:21, lorenzomattarolo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > I'm simulating an office with radiant panels on the ceiling.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Is it possible to put the radiant panels as they were suspended
> > > > > from the ceiling?
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. The panels aren't as wide as the ceiling. How can I set this in
> > the
> > > > > surfaceHeatTransfer? Do I have to put one surface with a normal
> > > > > construction for the ceiling and a smaller one with internal source for
> > > > > the panel?
> > > > >
> > > > > Many thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Lorenzo
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > > > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > > > >
> > > > > The group web site is:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > > > >
> > > > > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the
> > > appropriate folder
> > > > > in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> > > > >
> > > > > EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf
> > > under the
> > > > > Documentation link and press the "search" button.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ========================================================
> > > > Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
> > > > EnergyPlus Testing and Support
> > > > EnergyPlus-Support@...
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > >
> > > The group web site is:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > >
> > > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the appropriate
> > folder
> > > in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> > >
> > > EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the
> > > Documentation link and press the "search" button.
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ========================================================
> > Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
> > EnergyPlus Testing and Support
> > EnergyPlus-Support@xxxxxxxx <EnergyPlus-Support%40gard.com>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Josh Kjenner, EIT, LEED AP
> Manasc Isaac Architects Ltd.
> 10225 100 Avenue :: Edmonton, AB T5J 0A1
> 780.429.3977
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
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>
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>
> Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the appropriate folder
> in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
>
> EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the
> Documentation link and press the "search" button.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
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