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[EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Schedule 10001 - Output Value is time shifted
Great! That nails it. Now I must just figure out if I comply with the following statement from ASHRAE 90.12007 G3.1.2.4 Fan System Operation
"Supply and return fans shall operate continuaously whenever spaces are occupied and shall be cycled to meet heating and cooling loads during unoccupied hours."
My system type is three and specifies a "Constant Volume Fan"
I'm not sure if Fan:ConstantVolume will cycle during occupied hours or unoccupied hours depending on load. It goes on and off purely by fan schedule, no?
Then the Fan:OnOff is the right one and behaves exactly as (now thanks to your knowlege given) expected.
After trying all this the proof of the pudding will be the Min. ODA during occupied hours report...I'll let you know if all goes well.
Thanks again.
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Richard Raustad <RRaustad@...> wrote:
>
> When using a Fan:OnOff object, the fan will only turn on when there is
> a zone load to be met. And if the fan is not on, you will not get any
> outside air. Try changing your fan to Fan:ConstantVolume.
>
> AvailabilityManager:NightCycle,
> 118129 AHU Availability, !- Name
> HVACTemplate-Always 0, !-
> Applicability Schedule Name
> HVACTemplate-Always 0, !- Fan
> Schedule Name
> StayOff, !- Control Type
>
> Schedule:Compact,
> HVACTemplate-Always 0, !- Name
> HVACTemplate Any Number, !- Type
> Through: 12/31, !- Field
> For: AllDays, !- Field
> Until: 24:00, !- Field
> 0; !- Field
>
>
> On 10/15/2010 11:50 AM, jeannieboef wrote:
> >
> > I'll take it out and see what happens, thanks. But I'm still expecting
> > a constant all night Min ODA rate. I tried to take out the manager,
> > but the AirLoopHVAC expects at least 1. According to the documentation
> > though the "StayOff" is equal to a "no action", so in theory this
> > should still be okay.
> >
> > I've got 2 more things to try...then I'll report back.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, "James V Dirkes II, PE"
> > <jim@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Jean,
> > >
> > > You also have a Daylight Saving Time object in your IDF. This is
> > probably
> > > affecting your time variations.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > RunPeriodControl:DaylightSavingTime
> > >
> > > Similar to a special day period, a daylight saving period may be
> > entered to
> > > be applied to
> > >
> > > weather file run periods. These will always be in effect, regardless
> > of the
> > > value entered on the
> > >
> > > RunPeriod object. Note that this period will always override any
> > daylight
> > > saving period
> > >
> > > specified in a weather file
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Building Performance Team
> > > James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP
> > > 1631 Acacia Drive NW
> > > Grand Rapids, MI 49504
> > > 616 450 8653
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of jeannieboef
> > > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 8:43 AM
> > > To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Schedule 10001 - Output Value is time
> > > shifted
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes. That's how I've checked when the schedule value becomes
> > non-zero, and
> > > this is the bit that I don't get. When I look at the day schedule in the
> > > idf, I can't understand why the "Schedule Value" report variable for
> > > schedule 10001 reports the first non-zero values so early (06:30 I
> > > think...see eso) even on timestep reporting interval...the first
> > non-zero
> > > should be reported at 08:00:
> > >
> > > ! Profile: KiTa_Workingday_Profile
> > > Schedule:Day:List, 10000 , Any number, No,
> > > 30,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > .4,
> > > .5,
> > > .8,
> > > 1,
> > > .85,
> > > .8,
> > > .8,
> > > .8,
> > > .8,
> > > .8,
> > > .8,
> > > 1,
> > > .6,
> > > .65,
> > > .6,
> > > .6,
> > > .6,
> > > .7,
> > > .45,
> > > .6,
> > > .25,
> > > .4,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0,
> > > 0;
> > >
> > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard Raustad
> > > <RRaustad@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Have you tried using the "Schedule Value" report variable and
> > > > comparing this output to the people sensible heat gain and occupation
> > > > outputs?
> > > >
> > > > On 10/15/2010 7:53 AM, jeannieboef wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi James.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. I'm going to replace the "Always On" schedule with a "binarized
> > > > > occupation schedule".
> > > > >
> > > > > (although I now know that if e+ expects a 1/0 schedule and sees a
> > > > > fractional, for example occupation schedule, it will automatically
> > > > > assume all non-zeros to be 1 and zeros to be zero, so I could
> > use the
> > > > > occupation schedule here)
> > > > >
> > > > > I wanted to maintain the abillity of the fan availibility to
> > turn on
> > > > > and off on schedule and when availible and on, deliver a constant
> > > > > volume. It should cycle on and off to meet both the minimum air and
> > > > > room loads as required during its availibillity on time.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Yes, this manager is not used, but I thought to keep it if it
> > > > > became apparent that it is needed at a future stage. I will try and
> > > > > delete this manager (which overides scheduled values as
> > specified) as
> > > > > it maybe suppressing ventilation during "darkness hours". Good
> > thinking.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. The ODA controller is auto-sizing to the correct value (checked
> > > > > it). More over I checked with this also manually set (no
> > difference),
> > > > > so that was not the problem. I don't want the master of the
> > > > > auto-sizing to become irrelivant, as I'd rather adjust as little
> > > > > inputs as nessesary, so that's why I left this on auto.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well spotted. Thanks for the input.
> > > > >
> > > > > Could you figure out why my PEOPLE sensible heat gains and
> > occupation
> > > > > seem to start earlier than the 10001 occupation schedule suggests?
> > > > >
> > > > > The day schedule is set up in 30min intervals. I have the feeling
> > > > > something is interpolating backwards.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > jean.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, "James V Dirkes
> > II, PE"
> > > > > <jim@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Jean,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A quick review suggests that you look at:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. You are using an On/Off fan. The fan uses an "Always on"
> > schedule,
> > > > > > but the nature of this fan is to cycle on and off as needed for
> > > building
> > > > > > loads.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. You are also using AvailabilityManager:NightCycle set for
> > > > > > "StayOff". Normally this means that your fan will never
> > operate at
> > > > > night.
> > > > > > I'm not sure what happens with an OnOff fan ., but you might
> > get rid
> > > > > of this
> > > > > > manager since it does not apply to your situation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. Finally, you are autosizing minimum outdoor air in the
> > > > > > Controller:Outdoor Air. I'd be inclined to set the minimum at a
> > > non-zero
> > > > > > value or create a minimum fraction or schedule for outdoor air.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Building Performance Team
> > > > > > James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP
> > > > > > 1631 Acacia Drive NW
> > > > > > Grand Rapids, MI 49504
> > > > > > 616 450 8653
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
> > jeannieboef
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 3:46 AM
> > > > > > To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Schedule 10001 - Output Value is
> > > time
> > > > > > shifted
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you Dr. Li,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You're right. The only reason the schedule is "any number" not
> > > > > "fraction"
> > > > > > and this complicated is because this is the output from
> > > > > designbuilder. I use
> > > > > > the graphics from designbuilder in my simulation report which
> > > > > explain the
> > > > > > schedule much nicer than the syntax of a Schedule:Compact
> > object. As
> > > > > to the
> > > > > > time shift...I'm still at a loss. I use xEsoView to check the
> > > > > outputs in the
> > > > > > eso file. Therefore I specified the Schedule Output Values for
> > both
> > > > > hourly
> > > > > > and timestep. Looking at the timestep values I still don't under
> > > > > stand why
> > > > > > it doesn't start with the day schedule time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've posted the idf in the user exchange area.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My other problem is that the specified min ODA is not
> > happening, and
> > > > > I can't
> > > > > > figure out why (It should be constantly on night and day).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jean
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Richard A. Raustad
> > > > Senior Research Engineer
> > > > Florida Solar Energy Center
> > > > University of Central Florida
> > > > 1679 Clearlake Road
> > > > Cocoa, FL 32922-5703
> > > > Phone: (321) 638-1454
> > > > Fax: (321) 638-1439 or 1010
> > > > Visit our web site at: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu
> > > >
> > > > UCF - From Promise to Prominence: Celebrating 40 Years
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Richard A. Raustad
> Senior Research Engineer
> Florida Solar Energy Center
> University of Central Florida
> 1679 Clearlake Road
> Cocoa, FL 32922-5703
> Phone: (321) 638-1454
> Fax: (321) 638-1439 or 1010
> Visit our web site at: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu
>
> UCF - From Promise to Prominence: Celebrating 40 Years
>
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