[EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Schedule 10001 - Output Value is time shifted

["jeannieboef" <jeannieboef@xxxxxxxxx>]

Still problamatic. My fans switch on exactly one hour after occupation. With the RunPeriodControl:DaylightSavingTime object commented out and having checked the weatherfile has no DST periods. 

I think what's happening is that I get enough ODA from infiltration in the first hour, and according to the Zone Mean Temperature I don't need to cool for the first hour.

The problem is that in the summary report for "Minimum Outdoor Air During Occupied Hours", and other reports the "infiltration" is zero. This is because it's not reporting the infiltration from my AFN () but from the non-existing ZoneInfiltration objects.

How can get the report to show the the infiltration from the AFN?
Output:Variable, 118129, AirflowNetwork Zone Infiltration Air Change Rate, hourly;

PS I'm reporting this output, but it's not in the AllSummary report.




--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "James V Dirkes II, PE" <jim@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Jean,
> 
>  
> 
> A Constant Volume Fan will operate (at constant volume) when it's ON and
> will also deliver outdoor when it's ON.  It will also cycle during night
> hours with the proper NightCycle AvailabilityManager.
> 
>  
> 
> An OnOff fan, however, will cycle throughout the day and night, depending on
> the heating / cooling load as Richard noted earlier.
> 
>  
> 
> p.s., Glad you've got it working now!
> 
>  
> 
> The Building Performance Team
> James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP
> 1631 Acacia Drive NW
> Grand Rapids, MI 49504
> 616 450 8653
> 
>  
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of jeannieboef
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 12:18 PM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Schedule 10001 - Output Value is time
> shifted
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> Great! That nails it. Now I must just figure out if I comply with the
> following statement from ASHRAE 90.12007 G3.1.2.4 Fan System Operation
> 
> "Supply and return fans shall operate continuaously whenever spaces are
> occupied and shall be cycled to meet heating and cooling loads during
> unoccupied hours."
> 
> My system type is three and specifies a "Constant Volume Fan"
> 
> I'm not sure if Fan:ConstantVolume will cycle during occupied hours or
> unoccupied hours depending on load. It goes on and off purely by fan
> schedule, no?
> 
> Then the Fan:OnOff is the right one and behaves exactly as (now thanks to
> your knowlege given) expected.
> 
> After trying all this the proof of the pudding will be the Min. ODA during
> occupied hours report...I'll let you know if all goes well.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard Raustad
> <RRaustad@> wrote:
> >
> > When using a Fan:OnOff object, the fan will only turn on when there is 
> > a zone load to be met. And if the fan is not on, you will not get any 
> > outside air. Try changing your fan to Fan:ConstantVolume.
> > 
> > AvailabilityManager:NightCycle,
> > 118129 AHU Availability, !- Name
> > HVACTemplate-Always 0, !- 
> > Applicability Schedule Name
> > HVACTemplate-Always 0, !- Fan 
> > Schedule Name
> > StayOff, !- Control Type
> > 
> > Schedule:Compact,
> > HVACTemplate-Always 0, !- Name
> > HVACTemplate Any Number, !- Type
> > Through: 12/31, !- Field
> > For: AllDays, !- Field
> > Until: 24:00, !- Field
> > 0; !- Field
> > 
> > 
> > On 10/15/2010 11:50 AM, jeannieboef wrote:
> > >
> > > I'll take it out and see what happens, thanks. But I'm still expecting 
> > > a constant all night Min ODA rate. I tried to take out the manager, 
> > > but the AirLoopHVAC expects at least 1. According to the documentation 
> > > though the "StayOff" is equal to a "no action", so in theory this 
> > > should still be okay.
> > >
> > > I've got 2 more things to try...then I'll report back.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>  
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, "James V Dirkes II, PE" 
> > > <jim@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Jean,
> > > >
> > > > You also have a Daylight Saving Time object in your IDF. This is 
> > > probably
> > > > affecting your time variations.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > RunPeriodControl:DaylightSavingTime
> > > >
> > > > Similar to a special day period, a daylight saving period may be 
> > > entered to
> > > > be applied to
> > > >
> > > > weather file run periods. These will always be in effect, regardless 
> > > of the
> > > > value entered on the
> > > >
> > > > RunPeriod object. Note that this period will always override any 
> > > daylight
> > > > saving period
> > > >
> > > > specified in a weather file
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Building Performance Team
> > > > James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP
> > > > 1631 Acacia Drive NW
> > > > Grand Rapids, MI 49504
> > > > 616 450 8653
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>  
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>  
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of jeannieboef
> > > > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 8:43 AM
> > > > To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>  
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Schedule 10001 - Output Value is
> time
> > > > shifted
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes. That's how I've checked when the schedule value becomes 
> > > non-zero, and
> > > > this is the bit that I don't get. When I look at the day schedule in
> the
> > > > idf, I can't understand why the "Schedule Value" report variable for
> > > > schedule 10001 reports the first non-zero values so early (06:30 I
> > > > think...see eso) even on timestep reporting interval...the first 
> > > non-zero
> > > > should be reported at 08:00:
> > > >
> > > > ! Profile: KiTa_Workingday_Profile
> > > > Schedule:Day:List, 10000 , Any number, No,
> > > > 30,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > .4,
> > > > .5,
> > > > .8,
> > > > 1,
> > > > .85,
> > > > .8,
> > > > .8,
> > > > .8,
> > > > .8,
> > > > .8,
> > > > .8,
> > > > 1,
> > > > .6,
> > > > .65,
> > > > .6,
> > > > .6,
> > > > .6,
> > > > .7,
> > > > .45,
> > > > .6,
> > > > .25,
> > > > .4,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0,
> > > > 0;
> > > >
> > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>  
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard Raustad
> > > > <RRaustad@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Have you tried using the "Schedule Value" report variable and
> > > > > comparing this output to the people sensible heat gain and
> occupation
> > > > > outputs?
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/15/2010 7:53 AM, jeannieboef wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi James.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. I'm going to replace the "Always On" schedule with a "binarized
> > > > > > occupation schedule".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (although I now know that if e+ expects a 1/0 schedule and sees a
> > > > > > fractional, for example occupation schedule, it will automatically
> > > > > > assume all non-zeros to be 1 and zeros to be zero, so I could 
> > > use the
> > > > > > occupation schedule here)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wanted to maintain the abillity of the fan availibility to 
> > > turn on
> > > > > > and off on schedule and when availible and on, deliver a constant
> > > > > > volume. It should cycle on and off to meet both the minimum air
> and
> > > > > > room loads as required during its availibillity on time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. Yes, this manager is not used, but I thought to keep it if it
> > > > > > became apparent that it is needed at a future stage. I will try
> and
> > > > > > delete this manager (which overides scheduled values as 
> > > specified) as
> > > > > > it maybe suppressing ventilation during "darkness hours". Good 
> > > thinking.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. The ODA controller is auto-sizing to the correct value (checked
> > > > > > it). More over I checked with this also manually set (no 
> > > difference),
> > > > > > so that was not the problem. I don't want the master of the
> > > > > > auto-sizing to become irrelivant, as I'd rather adjust as little
> > > > > > inputs as nessesary, so that's why I left this on auto.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well spotted. Thanks for the input.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could you figure out why my PEOPLE sensible heat gains and 
> > > occupation
> > > > > > seem to start earlier than the 10001 occupation schedule suggests?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The day schedule is set up in 30min intervals. I have the feeling
> > > > > > something is interpolating backwards.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > jean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>  
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, "James V Dirkes 
> > > II, PE"
> > > > > > <jim@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dear Jean,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A quick review suggests that you look at:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. You are using an On/Off fan. The fan uses an "Always on" 
> > > schedule,
> > > > > > > but the nature of this fan is to cycle on and off as needed for
> > > > building
> > > > > > > loads.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. You are also using AvailabilityManager:NightCycle set for
> > > > > > > "StayOff". Normally this means that your fan will never 
> > > operate at
> > > > > > night.
> > > > > > > I'm not sure what happens with an OnOff fan ., but you might 
> > > get rid
> > > > > > of this
> > > > > > > manager since it does not apply to your situation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. Finally, you are autosizing minimum outdoor air in the
> > > > > > > Controller:Outdoor Air. I'd be inclined to set the minimum at a
> > > > non-zero
> > > > > > > value or create a minimum fraction or schedule for outdoor air.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Building Performance Team
> > > > > > > James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP
> > > > > > > 1631 Acacia Drive NW
> > > > > > > Grand Rapids, MI 49504
> > > > > > > 616 450 8653
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>  
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>  
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of 
> > > jeannieboef
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 3:46 AM
> > > > > > > To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>  
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Schedule 10001 - Output Value
> is
> > > > time
> > > > > > > shifted
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you Dr. Li,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You're right. The only reason the schedule is "any number" not
> > > > > > "fraction"
> > > > > > > and this complicated is because this is the output from
> > > > > > designbuilder. I use
> > > > > > > the graphics from designbuilder in my simulation report which
> > > > > > explain the
> > > > > > > schedule much nicer than the syntax of a Schedule:Compact 
> > > object. As
> > > > > > to the
> > > > > > > time shift...I'm still at a loss. I use xEsoView to check the
> > > > > > outputs in the
> > > > > > > eso file. Therefore I specified the Schedule Output Values for 
> > > both
> > > > > > hourly
> > > > > > > and timestep. Looking at the timestep values I still don't under
> > > > > > stand why
> > > > > > > it doesn't start with the day schedule time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've posted the idf in the user exchange area.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My other problem is that the specified min ODA is not 
> > > happening, and
> > > > > > I can't
> > > > > > > figure out why (It should be constantly on night and day).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jean
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Richard A. Raustad
> > > > > Senior Research Engineer
> > > > > Florida Solar Energy Center
> > > > > University of Central Florida
> > > > > 1679 Clearlake Road
> > > > > Cocoa, FL 32922-5703
> > > > > Phone: (321) 638-1454
> > > > > Fax: (321) 638-1439 or 1010
> > > > > Visit our web site at: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu
> > > > >
> > > > > UCF - From Promise to Prominence: Celebrating 40 Years
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Richard A. Raustad
> > Senior Research Engineer
> > Florida Solar Energy Center
> > University of Central Florida
> > 1679 Clearlake Road
> > Cocoa, FL 32922-5703
> > Phone: (321) 638-1454
> > Fax: (321) 638-1439 or 1010
> > Visit our web site at: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu
> > 
> > UCF - From Promise to Prominence: Celebrating 40 Years
> >
>




------------------------------------

Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx

The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov

The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/

Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection.  Limit attachments to small files.

EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable.  Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    EnergyPlus_Support-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    EnergyPlus_Support-fullfeatured@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/