Hi, Vieira
Do feel free to send me your question directly.
The attachment was the .csv file of the simulation using design day sizing only and display the output in timestep interval. You were using daily in the earlier IDF.
A number of statement you made did not make sense, because you were mixing up the different operation of each object.
I have been watching your questions and could not make out why there were so much problems, until you posted the IDF. Now I know you have a large building and conditioning only one zone.
In EPlus there are groups of classes. The zone, the system, and the plants.
The zone fan coils and the system fan coils looks similar but treated differently in implementation and linking. I am not an EPlus designer, so I am not using the EPlus developer's language.
There five items in the control object: Zone sizing, system sizing, plant sizing, sizing DesignDay, and run weather file..
If there are zone equipment, the zone sizing must be done first. If the fan coil is an AHU, then it is a system equipment of a Primary Air Loop. At present, if you look at the SVG, it looks like a zone equipment, with no splitter and mixer to feed air to different zones. Therefore some of the controls may not be linked to the system.
That was why I ask yu do you wanted to simulate one AHU per floor feeding multiple zones, or feeding the plant water directly to each zone. Once you have decided on these, the zone sizing and system sizing and plant sizing objects can be correctly filled. There may not be system, as the plant branches are the zone fan coils. You may have an OA mixer box for each fan coil in the zone.
The fan capacity and the OA in intake volume are not related, because the zone or plenum return air make up the difference at the mixed node of the OA box. default at 0.00944 m3/s (flow/person) is the minim fresh air requirement. It is included in the calculation and used as a guide for the minimum air flow per zone. It is also in the zone sizing object, I think.
The OA controller controls the inlet node damper. The maximum you can have is the fan capacity of the system or the zone. If you do use a controller, you may want to shut off the OA flow when the outside air is too hot or too cold, or to use the air as the system air in the economy cycle, in the thermostat dead band.
Plant set points generally do not change the zone temperature control. They are more a safety control. You do not want the hot water to boil, and Chiller to freeze, etc.
Thermostat control depends on the equipment you have chosen for each zone.. The schedule need not be constant at one value. Usually is 40, 25, 40 for cooling, and 10. 20, 10 for heating. During the morning and evening, when the outside air temperature is not extreme, the air-conditioner can be switch off.
Heat recovery systems are not important, as you will need more capital cost, and the saving is minimal, if the fresh air intake is from building leaks. You may study it as a research topic not a 'green' topic.
You should identify the heat source, and vent the heat directly to outside air during cooling and vented back to the zone during heating. Mounting of the lights, shower room, dryer room, printer room, etc. Solar heating is also of main heating to be avoided.
I think, I have written enough. Do ask me again, and I shall reply you point by point using the IDF.
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: vieira.jose99@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:21:23 +0000
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: AirTerminal:SingleDuct:Uncontrolled
Hello Dr. Li,
Can you please send the attachment to my email, because i cannot access it from here, and didn't receive any email with the attachment.
In fact the building is large. I am only studying for now the implementation of HVAC systems, for now I wanted to control one zone and understand the various aspects of the parameters. Then I shall escalade and implement more hvac systems and condition all the zones.
I had previously in this order: mixing box + water:cooling:coil + water:heating:coil + supply fan, but could not setup the setpoint manager so that the zone air meam temperature was in the 20/25ºC range. I had defined at the both coils sensores (at the controller) the supply fan outlet node, but then in implementing the setpoint the system didn't stay in the 20/25ºC range. Then I changed the sensor of the cooling coil to the output of the cooling coil node and the heating coil to the supply fan outlet node, with this I achieved the range 20/25ºC but with an extra 0,7ºC possibly from the supply fan heat rejection that the system didn't account for. For this I setup 2 setpoint managers one singleZoneHeating and one singleZoneCooling. Because of the extra 0,7ºC I changed the supply fan to be before the heating coil, and with this I got perfect 20/25ºC as I pretended.
But I could only achieve this in defining an Outdoor Air Flow in the Sizing:Zone sufficiently big, if I leave it at the default at 0.00944 m3/s (flow/person) then the system cannot achieve the 20/25ºC, then I checked the nodes mass flow and saw that it was constant all year round, and should be varying to supply the required air amount to achieve air mean temperature of the zone to the thermostat setpoint range of 20/25ºC.
Could explain why this is happing or what is it that I am doing wrong?
After this, the next step for me will to implement heat recovery systems.
Best regards,
Vieira
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, YuanLu Li <yli006@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Vieira
> I am still frying to figure out what is the relationship of the controlled zone to the rest of the building.
> The attached .csv is the result of your second up loaded IDF.
> You will see that some of the zones have very high temperature.
> The position of the fan in the air loop should not affect the performance much. However, you need to state blowthrough or drawthogh in one of the fields, and node connection sequence must match. I have not found these yet.
> The building is quite large. It will take some time for me to identify all the locations.
> How many AHU do you intend to use in the final design? One AHU per floor for many zones, and one fan coil unit per zone would have different branch arrangements.
>
> Dr. Li
>
>
>
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: vieira.jose99@...
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:26:39 +0000
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: AirTerminal:SingleDuct:Uncontrolled
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Thank-you for your help xszhang2010.
>
> I just had to adjust the set point manager to get 25ºC maximum during the cooling season. I changed the supply fan to be before the heating coil, because the way I had it (water cooling coil then water heating coil then supply fan) I could not get a decent setpoint manager setup for the water:coil controllers.
>
> I also added a return fan.
>
>
>
> But now I have another issue with the variable fans. They are not varying!? I don't understand why not. Also to get temperatures in the 20 to 25ºC range all year round, I had to force in the Sizing:Zone the option Outdoor Air Method to a reasonable flow or else the system doesn't achieve de 20ºC minimum in winter and passes the 25ºC maximum in summer. I think it is because the Fans are not varying there flow to a greater value of air flow, as I said the air flow is at a constant level.
>
>
>
> I have put the .idf in the file section, here is the link: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/files/_Problem_Submittals/
>
>
>
> Best regards to all,
>
> Vieira
>
Can you please send the attachment to my email, because i cannot access it from here, and didn't receive any email with the attachment.
In fact the building is large. I am only studying for now the implementation of HVAC systems, for now I wanted to control one zone and understand the various aspects of the parameters. Then I shall escalade and implement more hvac systems and condition all the zones.
I had previously in this order: mixing box + water:cooling:coil + water:heating:coil + supply fan, but could not setup the setpoint manager so that the zone air meam temperature was in the 20/25ºC range. I had defined at the both coils sensores (at the controller) the supply fan outlet node, but then in implementing the setpoint the system didn't stay in the 20/25ºC range. Then I changed the sensor of the cooling coil to the output of the cooling coil node and the heating coil to the supply fan outlet node, with this I achieved the range 20/25ºC but with an extra 0,7ºC possibly from the supply fan heat rejection that the system didn't account for. For this I setup 2 setpoint managers one singleZoneHeating and one singleZoneCooling. Because of the extra 0,7ºC I changed the supply fan to be before the heating coil, and with this I got perfect 20/25ºC as I pretended.
But I could only achieve this in defining an Outdoor Air Flow in the Sizing:Zone sufficiently big, if I leave it at the default at 0.00944 m3/s (flow/person) then the system cannot achieve the 20/25ºC, then I checked the nodes mass flow and saw that it was constant all year round, and should be varying to supply the required air amount to achieve air mean temperature of the zone to the thermostat setpoint range of 20/25ºC.
Could explain why this is happing or what is it that I am doing wrong?
After this, the next step for me will to implement heat recovery systems.
Best regards,
Vieira
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, YuanLu Li <yli006@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Vieira
> I am still frying to figure out what is the relationship of the controlled zone to the rest of the building.
> The attached .csv is the result of your second up loaded IDF.
> You will see that some of the zones have very high temperature.
> The position of the fan in the air loop should not affect the performance much. However, you need to state blowthrough or drawthogh in one of the fields, and node connection sequence must match. I have not found these yet.
> The building is quite large. It will take some time for me to identify all the locations.
> How many AHU do you intend to use in the final design? One AHU per floor for many zones, and one fan coil unit per zone would have different branch arrangements.
>
> Dr. Li
>
>
>
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: vieira.jose99@...
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:26:39 +0000
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: AirTerminal:SingleDuct:Uncontrolled
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Thank-you for your help xszhang2010.
>
> I just had to adjust the set point manager to get 25ºC maximum during the cooling season. I changed the supply fan to be before the heating coil, because the way I had it (water cooling coil then water heating coil then supply fan) I could not get a decent setpoint manager setup for the water:coil controllers.
>
> I also added a return fan.
>
>
>
> But now I have another issue with the variable fans. They are not varying!? I don't understand why not. Also to get temperatures in the 20 to 25ºC range all year round, I had to force in the Sizing:Zone the option Outdoor Air Method to a reasonable flow or else the system doesn't achieve de 20ºC minimum in winter and passes the 25ºC maximum in summer. I think it is because the Fans are not varying there flow to a greater value of air flow, as I said the air flow is at a constant level.
>
>
>
> I have put the .idf in the file section, here is the link: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/files/_Problem_Submittals/
>
>
>
> Best regards to all,
>
> Vieira
>
__._,_.___
Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx
The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov
The group web site is:
http://groups..yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files.
EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
__,_._,___
=======
Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17210)
http://www.pctools.com
=======