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[EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Model too big and too complicated? Part 2 - the E+ model
Thanks for the reply, sincerely.
but I am afraid I will need a bit more hints of what I should be looking for in the IDF.
the recuring errors I get don't mention a particular object or anything, just that temperature, etc(see below) are out of range.
I didn't find anything in the .audit file either.
by the way, I am not looking at a way to reduce the filesize of the IDF or EXPIDF. unless it can help EP Launch but I don't think so.
JP Beaulieu
PS: I can use a text editor just as well as IDF Editor. I do it once in a while. Actually, I used the "find and replace" tool to add the OtherSideCoeficient in the bsmt surface.
I know about comment lines: !- & ! and use the latter to document the details of some objects I put in.
Don't worry.
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, YuanLu Li <yli006@...> wrote:
>
>
> May be you should have a look at the IDF using a text editor.
> Half of the expIDF file lines are commented out lines, which may be safely deleted.
> 61 zone is not very large.
>
> Dr. Li
>
>
>
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: jippnojunk@...
> Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 16:00:08 +0000
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Model too big and too complicated? Part 2 - the E+ model
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> hello again,
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> So like I said in the other msg I just posted I think I went a bit too hard on the zoning in this model and it complicated the model down the road.
>
> Building is 10 stories of offices with basement for just over 200 000sf. including indoor garage in bsmt.
>
> The model has 61 zones, 1100 BuildingSurface:Detailed, 385 FenestrationSurface:Detailed, 5 main HVAC systems including Perimeter VAV, central VAV, basement (cafeteria) VAV, kitchen 100% make up air and server room LIEBERT,
>
> There are 1 main chiller on a water tower, 1 auxiliary chiller with DX cooler, and a freecooler with water to water heat exchanger on the cooling water loop for when the weather is below 4*C.
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> I am considering rezoning the model in a much simpler manner now.
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> Zoning is:
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> 5 zones per floor (typical) = N,S,E & W perimeter zones and a center zone.
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> 1 extra zone for a server room on ground floor,
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> 1 main hall
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> 8 zones in the basement for various uses. (I should have made 3 really = garage, kitchen and cafeteria neglecting small admin offices and a mech room)
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> 1 heated mechanical penthouse on the roof.
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> So the number of zones made it harder especially for the matching of inside surfaces.!! :) also, I cannot mix the central zone with more than one perimeter zone so I need to add heating when there is none.
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> I have had the model CRASH on me, I re-run the model after a fresh PC bootup and it went through... but with
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> EnergyPlus Completed Successfully-- 1387750 Warning; 0 Severe Errors; Elapsed Time=01hr 31min 28.49sec
>
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> I don't get the ===== Recurring Error Summary =====.
>
> The temperatures, Enthalpy, Relative Humidity must be insane to get out of range. I ran many previous versions of this model without these particular errors.
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> I would like some clues.
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> The error file is posted at the end of this msg.(should I upload a file instead next time?)
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> Last modifications were:
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> - added OtherSideCoefficients and supporting scheduels for the underground surfaces (after I ran the bsmt preprocessor)
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> - changed a few output:variable (have 21 in total)
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> - changed OutputControl:Table:Style to CommaAndHTML,
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> - added heating to central zones with baseboards to the HVACTemplate:Zone:VAV objects
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> the only thing I think can do that is the OtherSideCoeficients...
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> (BTW I use WINMERGE free software to compare text files)
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> QUESTIONS:
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> #1 - I imagine that model computational and file "weight" is proportional to the number of surfaces and HVAC systems mainly. will it help reduce the crashing if I reduce the number of zones?
>
> #2 - can these type of errors make the model crash in some instances but not allways if we ran the model multiple times?
>
> #3 - I understand that recurring errors can occur at different "places" but this error file doesn't tell us much about where to look.
>
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> THANKS a lot!
>
>
>
> ERROR FILE POST
>
> Program Version,EnergyPlus 6.0.0.023, 2011-05-05 21:51,IDD_Version 6.0.0.023
>
> ** Warning ** Output:PreprocessorMessage="ExpandObjects" has the following Warning conditions:
>
> ** ~~~ ** Warning: In HVACTemplate:System:PackagedVAV "GARAGE OA" the Heating Coil
>
> ** ~~~ ** Design Setpoint is greater than the Cooling Coil Design Setpoint. This may
>
> ** ~~~ ** cause the heating coil and cooling coil to operate simultaneously. Check
>
> ** ~~~ ** results carefully and adjust controls if needed.
>
> ************* Beginning Zone Sizing Calculations
>
> ** Warning ** BuildingSurface:Detailed="E194FF", Sun Exposure="SUNEXPOSED".
>
> ** ~~~ ** ..This surface is not exposed to External Environment. Sun exposure has no effect.
>
> ** Warning ** GetSurfaceData: InterZone Surface Areas do not match as expected and might not satisfy conservation of energy:
>
> ** ~~~ ** Area=140.4 in Surface=3C6DD1, Zone=ZN-01
>
> ** ~~~ ** Area=146.6 in Surface=E9AF30, Zone=ZN-02
>
> ** Warning ** Calculated design cooling load for zone=Z-00-GARAGE is zero.
>
> ** ~~~ ** Check Sizing:Zone and ZoneControl:Thermostat inputs.
>
> ** Warning ** Calculated design cooling load for zone=Z-00-MECA is zero.
>
> ** ~~~ ** Check Sizing:Zone and ZoneControl:Thermostat inputs.
>
> ** Warning ** Calculated design cooling load for zone=Z-00-UPS is zero.
>
> ** ~~~ ** Check Sizing:Zone and ZoneControl:Thermostat inputs.
>
> ** Warning ** Calculated design cooling load for zone=Z-00-ELECT is zero.
>
> ** ~~~ ** Check Sizing:Zone and ZoneControl:Thermostat inputs.
>
> ** Warning ** Calculated design cooling load for zone=Z-00-EAU is zero.
>
> ** ~~~ ** Check Sizing:Zone and ZoneControl:Thermostat inputs.
>
> ** Warning ** Calculated design heating load for zone=Z-01-TI is zero.
>
> ** ~~~ ** Check Sizing:Zone and ZoneControl:Thermostat inputs.
>
> ** Warning ** Calculated design cooling load for zone=Z-11-PH is zero.
>
> ** ~~~ ** Check Sizing:Zone and ZoneControl:Thermostat inputs.
>
> ************* Beginning System Sizing Calculations
>
> ** Warning ** ManageSizing: Calculated Heating Design Air Flow Rate for System=SERVEUR TI is zero.
>
> ** ~~~ ** Check Sizing:Zone and ZoneControl:Thermostat inputs.
>
> ************* Beginning Plant Sizing Calculations
>
> ** Warning ** In calculating the design coil UA for Coil:Cooling:Water VAV CAFET COOLING COIL
>
> ** ~~~ ** the apparatus dew-point is below the coil design inlet water temperature;
>
> ** ~~~ ** the coil outlet design conditions will be changed to correct the problem.
>
> ** ~~~ ** The initial design conditions are: Tair,in = 28.7591
>
> ** ~~~ ** Wair,in = 1.193842E-002
>
> ** ~~~ ** Twater,in = 7.0000
>
> ** ~~~ ** Tair,out = 14.0000
>
> ** ~~~ ** Wair,out = 8.000000E-003
>
> ** ~~~ ** The revised design conditions are: Tair,out = 12.9801
>
> ** ~~~ ** Wair,out = 8.411890E-003
>
> ** Warning ** In calculating the design coil UA for Coil:Cooling:Water 100P100 CUIS COOLING COIL
>
> ** ~~~ ** no apparatus dew-point can be found for the initial entering and leaving conditions;
>
> ** ~~~ ** the coil outlet design conditions will be changed to correct the problem.
>
> ** ~~~ ** The initial design conditions are: Tair,in = 26.4072
>
> ** ~~~ ** Wair,in = 1.354281E-002
>
> ** ~~~ ** Twater,in = 7.0000
>
> ** ~~~ ** Tair,out = 19.0000
>
> ** ~~~ ** Wair,out = 8.000000E-003
>
> ** ~~~ ** The revised design conditions are: Tair,out = 15.0041
>
> ** ~~~ ** Wair,out = 9.611298E-003
>
> ** Warning ** Output:Meter: invalid Name="PLANTLOOPCOOLINGDEMAND" - not found.
>
> ************* Testing Individual Branch Integrity
>
> ************* All Branches passed integrity testing
>
> ************* Testing Individual Supply Air Path Integrity
>
> ************* All Supply Air Paths passed integrity testing
>
> ************* Testing Individual Return Air Path Integrity
>
> ************* All Return Air Paths passed integrity testing
>
> ************* No node connection errors were found.
>
> ************* Beginning Simulation
>
> ** Warning ** Calculated Relative Humidity out of range (PsyRhFnTdbWPb)
>
> ** ~~~ ** Routine=CalcMultiSpeedDXCoil:lowspeedoutlet, Environment=MONTREAL INT'L ANN CLG .4% CONDNS DB=>MWB, at Simulation time=07/21 00:08 - 00:10
>
> ** ~~~ ** Dry-Bulb= -59.60 Humidity Ratio= 1.000E-005 Calculated Relative Humidity [%]= 142.28
>
> ** ~~~ ** Relative Humidity being reset to 100.0%
>
> ** Warning ** Enthalpy out of range (PsyTsatFnHPb)
>
> ** ~~~ ** Routine=CalcMultiSpeedDXCoil:newdewpointconditions,
>
> ** ~~~ ** Environment=MONTREAL INT'L ANN CLG .4% CONDNS DB=>MWB, at Simulation time=07/21 00:10 - 00:11
>
> ** ~~~ ** Enthalpy=-113338.64975 Pressure= 100893.00
>
> ** ~~~ ** Initial Resultant Temperature= -59.98
>
> ** Warning ** Calculated Humidity Ratio invalid (PsyWFnTdbH)
>
> ** ~~~ ** Routine=CalcMultiSpeedDXCoil:newdewpointconditions,
>
> ** ~~~ ** Environment=MONTREAL INT'L ANN CLG .4% CONDNS DB=>MWB, at Simulation time=07/21 00:10 - 00:11
>
> ** ~~~ ** Dry-Bulb= -59.98 Enthalpy= -131202.349
>
> ** ~~~ ** Calculated Humidity Ratio= -2.9681E-002 ... Humidity Ratio set to .00001
>
> ** Warning ** Temperature out of range [-100. to 200.] (PsyPsatFnTemp)
>
> ** ~~~ ** Routine=CalcMultiSpeedDXCoil:lowspeedoutlet, Environment=MONTREAL INT'L ANN CLG .4% CONDNS DB=>MWB, at Simulation time=07/21 00:10 - 00:11
>
> ** ~~~ ** Input Temperature=-130.59
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 01/04 00:00 - 00:15
>
> ** ~~~ ** ...use Output:Diagnostics,DisplayExtraWarnings; to show more details on each max iteration exceeded.
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 01/14 00:00 - 00:15
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 01/20 00:00 - 00:15
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 01/25 00:00 - 00:15
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 01/27 00:00 - 00:15
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 02/08 00:00 - 00:15
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 02/16 00:00 - 00:15
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 02/17 00:00 - 00:15
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 02/23 00:00 - 00:15
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 02/24 00:00 - 00:15
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 03/01 00:00 - 00:15
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 03/07 00:00 - 00:15
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 03/13 23:00 - 23:15
>
> ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Maximum iterations (20) exceeded for all HVAC loops, at FULL YEAR RUN, 03/20 23:00 - 23:15
>
> ** Warning ** Temperature out of range [-100. to 200.] (PsyTwbFnTdbWPb)
>
> ** ~~~ ** Routine=Unknown, Environment=FULL YEAR RUN, at Simulation time=06/16 10:30 - 10:45
>
> ** ~~~ ** Input Temperature=672.13
>
> ** ~~~ ** Resultant Temperature= 99.90
>
> ************* There are 15 unused schedules in input.
>
> ************* Use Output:Diagnostics,DisplayUnusedSchedules; to see them.
>
> *************
>
> ************* ===== Recurring Surface Error Summary =====
>
> ************* The following surface error messages occurred.
>
> *************
>
> ************* Base Surface does not surround subsurface errors occuring...
>
> ************* Check that the GlobalGeometryRules object is expressing the proper starting corner and direction [CounterClockwise/Clockwise]
>
> *************
>
> ** Warning ** Base surface does not surround subsurface (CHKSBS), Overlap Status=No-Overlap
>
> ** ~~~ ** The base surround errors occurred 1 times.
>
> ** ~~~ ** Surface "C42F28" misses SubSurface "A1B53B"
>
> *************
>
> ** ~~~ ** The base surround errors occurred 1 times (total).
>
> *************
>
> *************
>
> ************* ===== Recurring Error Summary =====
>
> ************* The following recurring error messages occurred.
>
> *************
>
> ************* ** Warning ** Calculated Relative Humidity out of range (PsyRhFnTdbWPb)
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** This error occurred 224810 total times;
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** during Warmup 0 times;
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** during Sizing 0 times.
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** Max=114573.833292 % Min=101.03011 %
>
> *************
>
> ************* ** Warning ** Enthalpy out of range (PsyTsatFnHPb)
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** This error occurred 448750 total times;
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** during Warmup 0 times;
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** during Sizing 0 times.
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** Max=-42421.12774 J/kg Min=-31132399.906316 J/kg
>
> *************
>
> ************* ** Warning ** Calculated Humidity Ratio invalid (PsyWFnTdbH)
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** This error occurred 403350 total times;
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** during Warmup 0 times;
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** during Sizing 0 times.
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** Max=-2.070452E-004 [] Min=-13.011505 []
>
> *************
>
> ************* ** Warning ** Temperature out of range [-100. to 200.] (PsyPsatFnTemp)
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** This error occurred 310195 total times;
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** during Warmup 0 times;
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** during Sizing 0 times.
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** Max=-100.083049 C Min=-30999.673925 C
>
> *************
>
> ************* ** Warning ** SimHVAC: Exceeding Maximum iterations for all HVAC loops, during FULL YEAR RUN continues
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** This error occurred 600 total times;
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** during Warmup 0 times;
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** during Sizing 0 times.
>
> *************
>
> ************* ** Warning ** Temperature out of range [-100. to 200.] (PsyTwbFnTdbWPb)
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** This error occurred 16 total times;
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** during Warmup 0 times;
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** during Sizing 0 times.
>
> ************* ** ~~~ ** Max=877.753425 C Min=213.188952 C
>
> *************
>
> *************
>
> ************* ===== Final Error Summary =====
>
> ************* The following error categories occurred. Consider correcting or noting.
>
> ************* InterZone Surface Areas -- mismatch
>
> ************* ..Area mismatch errors happen when the interzone surface in zone A is
>
> ************* ..not the same size as it's companion in zone B.
>
> *************
>
> ************* EnergyPlus Warmup Error Summary. During Warmup: 0 Warning; 0 Severe Errors.
>
> ************* EnergyPlus Sizing Error Summary. During Sizing: 10 Warning; 0 Severe Errors.
>
> ************* EnergyPlus Completed Successfully-- 1387750 Warning; 0 Severe Errors; Elapsed Time=01hr 31min 28.49sec
>
------------------------------------
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