[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] an idf model question





Thank you for your information, Dr.Li.
I think I need some basic understanding of the rules of EP HVAC system input.
 
Now I have got that the pump should be the first branch in supply side.
 
Let me explain my problem one by one so that you could help me cracking them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The hvac system in this case is not a good one, but it's a real system already in operation that I have to simulate. The original envelop is downloaded from somebody else's case without any hvac input. That is an DesignBuilder output exactly. I added hvac component to the original file and developed my idf file. I haven't used any templates.
 
I do not intend to have 3 air loops in one zone. Just OAU sys and AHU sys. The exh fan is designed for the OAU. The input of OutdooeAirUnit asks for an exhaust fan. Is the OutdoorAirUnit and Exhaust fan input correct? I am not clear how to set the exhaust air node. The OutdoorAirUnit input do not asks for exh. air node, but the ZoneHvac:EquipmentConnection needs an exhaust air node. And the fan object also should have inlet and outlet air node. I think the ZoneHvac:EquipConnection object is not related to the OutdoorAirUnit. So how to relate the fans to the oau and the zone?
 
By the way the Fig93 ( OutdoorAirUnit) of Input Output Reference is something wrong in the four nodes caption.
 
 And should the outdoor air unit branches stated in the NodeBranchManagement object? I think it's not necessary.
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the thermostat and controller, I have two coils in each AHU, one heating and one cooling. They both respond to the zone return air temperature. If I set two setpoint manager for the two coils the reference the same setpoint node: RA Node, there are errors then. But if I delete one setpoint (ie heating coil), errors asking for an setpoint appears.
What confused me much is that the ZoneEquipment is an Uncontrolled object (AirTerminal:SingleDuct:Uncontrolled), and how the thermostat could respond and control. So I think the thermostat is not necessary in this case. Just controllers are enough.?
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you in the performance and simulation of The absorption chiller heater. Dividing into one chiller and one boiler should have the same performance.
What I do not understand is that point in your email " In fact, if the chiller is entered in two places, all the branches will be in correct order."  What do you mean by "entered in two places"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Input logic is not fully and clearly stated in the reference files, I think, that's where the difficulties come from. I think the programe is developed by many different universities, so we have to input some variables for more than once in different groups different subroutines. Really difficult to understand the input syntax.
 
Thank you again. And may god bless you helping so much EPfreshpeople allover the world. That should be a hard work.
 
QU
 
 

From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 8:42 AM
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] an idf model question

 
Hi, qutianfei
 
What ever your name meant.   Flying in the Autumn sky?
 
I do not understand why you have an OAU, an AHU and an exhaust fan in the same zone.  You can split the office into zones, so that the air can be better distributed and controlled even if you do not have physical partition walls. (open office concept.)
 
You may have heard me saying VAV and reheat is not commonly used, and it is not new.  What I really meant is referring to people using VAV rehet per room.
 
I have used VAV at the AHU main duct so that the East and West zone would get different amount of cooling supply during the morning and afternoon hours.  (stepper motor controlled dampers, a timer and a couple of  theremostat switches.)
 
We (the University engineering team) design the system to fit the different requirement of the building demand, with minimum capital and running cost.  In tropical countries, the insulation requiements are not the same as the ASHRAE standard.
 
===============================
If your AHU feeds many diffusers, and the return air is normally via the false ceiling space, you should model the ceiling space as a plenum mixer for the air loop.  You can channel lighting heat to the plenum and get better cooling efficiency.
 
If the AHU is the main cooling and heating source, then the thermostat of the zone should be assigned to this system.
 
The exhaust fan is not required, unless it is for the toilet or printing room, etc.  It that case, they should have a separate zone defined and use zone mixing to control the air flow.
 
If the OAU is for providing the so called 100% fresh air, it can be part of the air loop, unless the quantity is so high that the flow must be separately heated or cooled.  If the AHU air is ducted for distribution, the fresh air can be conditioned by the same sets of coils.
 
The zone thermostat can be used for either system, because you only have one zone.
 
I.e., one system, OAU or AHU has the use of the thermostat control.  The other system can be uncontrolled or setpoint controlled.  The outlet temperature will not follow the zone temperature value.  This type of OAU is usually referred to as DOAS, which is not commonly used to feed a zone.
===============================
I have no hands on experience in running the absorption chiller.  I assume it behave the same way as a heat pump, with the compressor replace by the heat source.
 
In that case, the component may need to be repeated in the separate cooling and heating plant loopss with the heating and cooling side properly connected.
 
When it is used as a chiller, the other hot side is connected to the condenser loop.
 
When used as a heater, the other cold side is the environment or  auxiliary heat source.
======================
When you use the Controller:MixedAir there are two setpoints for cooling and one for heating, and one reference node.  Two system would need six setpoint nodes. and two reference nodes.
 
These will not be required, if you use the AHU to feed the fresh air and save one fan.
=====================
I have already mentioned the branch ordering in the plant loops.
 
The absorption chiller is the on the supply side of the CW loop, the hot end is the demand side of the condenser loop, which is connected to the tower.
 
When it is used as a heating source, the hot end is the source of the HW loop, the  cold end is to be exposed to a warm environment.
==============================
The above covers all those errors mentioned in the error file.
 
Because the file has been sorted, the branches are listed according to the object ty pe and ot by the system group.  This is not so easy to sort out.
 
That is why I asked you whether you used the template in DesignBuilder.  If you did, export the IDF without sorting if possible.  It will then be easier to correct.  In fact, if the chiller is entered in two places, all the branches will be in correct order.
 
The zone setpoint problem can be solved by moving the OA mixer to the AHU and delete the OAU.  100% fresh air can be injected with a Ventilation object with a schedule to control the quantity required.


 Dr. Li  

 
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx
CC: leebye2008@xxxxxxxxx
From: leebye2008@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 19:53:58 -0700
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] an idf model question

 
Dr.Li,
I am working with a two floor office building, but always cannot pass the simulation compiling. Together with some of my understanding of EP, I attached this model dxf scheme file and idf file to this mail. It's really great help to get some right knowledge on EP. Hope that you could spent a few minutes on my problem.  Thank you very much.
qutianfei






__._,_.___


Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx

The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov

The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/

Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection.  Limit attachments to small files.

EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable.  Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___