Hi, Xing
Because the building information is not in the usual IDF naming format, I assume that you generated using some other software. When you export thism the information may be changed.
If you run the IDF in the DesignB uilder, the information is the original one. This is only my assuption.
I seldom use the IDFeditor to change files. I use the text editor all the time.
Jim's advice is the standard procedure to follow. I have been been doing all these steps to find your problem. All the report variables I addid in the IDF were removed. The same lines in the 09-09 file are there. The 09-18 file still would not run the DesignDay simulation using the correct shedule.
I have not look at your latest file in detail.
===============
!-Generator IDFEditor 1.38a
!-Option SortedOrder
=================
These are the first two lines in your IDF. It inidicate that you are in the sorted mode.
It can be changed in the save option, of the IDFeditor.
The IDFeditor cannot un-sort to the template order. I am referring the IDFeditor from the EPlaunch. DesignBuilder or other software, may have its own IDFeditor. Because it is using multiple origins for the zones, I do not want to spend time to decode the surfaces information.
Later EPlus example files are not sorted. This allows easy removal or checking of the loops and branches, etc.,
Based on the 09-09 info, you do not have VAV damper in the zone. Without that it is not possible to control the zone temperature to the exact set point and turn on the reheat heater in Summer. If you move the set point of the AHU to one zone (Master), then the temperature of this zone will follow the thermostat of this zone. The other four zones will be slaved with some differences in temperature, depending on the air volume fraction you have set.
The VAV damper maximum flow setting may be autosized. The minimum setting controls the turning on of the reheat heater, and is set by user.
As you have not follow all these rules, the 'set point not met' number has no meaning.
What is ASHRAE system 8 baseline building? How do you enter this into your IDF? Is this informatin in a separate file? I do not have any ASHRAE documents.
I have already mentioned the naming change in the other e-mail. Moving the zones around in a large building is not the standard way of desiging HVAC. You are assuming that the air is flowing in virtual ducts and no plenum mixer. Temperature of adjacent rooms are not controlled.
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: xing.shi.2006@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 00:39:16 +0000
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: How to reduce "not met hours"
__._,_.___
Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx
The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov
The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files.
EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
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Because the building information is not in the usual IDF naming format, I assume that you generated using some other software. When you export thism the information may be changed.
If you run the IDF in the DesignB uilder, the information is the original one. This is only my assuption.
I seldom use the IDFeditor to change files. I use the text editor all the time.
Jim's advice is the standard procedure to follow. I have been been doing all these steps to find your problem. All the report variables I addid in the IDF were removed. The same lines in the 09-09 file are there. The 09-18 file still would not run the DesignDay simulation using the correct shedule.
I have not look at your latest file in detail.
===============
!-Generator IDFEditor 1.38a
!-Option SortedOrder
=================
These are the first two lines in your IDF. It inidicate that you are in the sorted mode.
It can be changed in the save option, of the IDFeditor.
The IDFeditor cannot un-sort to the template order. I am referring the IDFeditor from the EPlaunch. DesignBuilder or other software, may have its own IDFeditor. Because it is using multiple origins for the zones, I do not want to spend time to decode the surfaces information.
Later EPlus example files are not sorted. This allows easy removal or checking of the loops and branches, etc.,
Based on the 09-09 info, you do not have VAV damper in the zone. Without that it is not possible to control the zone temperature to the exact set point and turn on the reheat heater in Summer. If you move the set point of the AHU to one zone (Master), then the temperature of this zone will follow the thermostat of this zone. The other four zones will be slaved with some differences in temperature, depending on the air volume fraction you have set.
The VAV damper maximum flow setting may be autosized. The minimum setting controls the turning on of the reheat heater, and is set by user.
As you have not follow all these rules, the 'set point not met' number has no meaning.
What is ASHRAE system 8 baseline building? How do you enter this into your IDF? Is this informatin in a separate file? I do not have any ASHRAE documents.
I have already mentioned the naming change in the other e-mail. Moving the zones around in a large building is not the standard way of desiging HVAC. You are assuming that the air is flowing in virtual ducts and no plenum mixer. Temperature of adjacent rooms are not controlled.
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: xing.shi.2006@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 00:39:16 +0000
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: How to reduce "not met hours"
Hello! Dr. Li,
The IDF run on our computer does not have any severe erros and very few warnings. I don't know why it has 5 severe erros on your computer. Jim's advice is very helpful and we will try to do that.
I am not quite sure what you meant by "do not use the IDFeditor". We set up the model using IDFeditor and copied some objects from the example file provided by E+. We then changed some objects based on our building. Are you saying we should not do this?
Thanks!
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, YuanLu Li <yli006@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Xing Your building entry still hve problems (5 severe errors). It is possible that the exported IDF text is not the same as the IDF in the third party software. You should follow the steps given by Jim Dirkes to display the variables and to trace the program operation. It is not possible to control five zones of a large building and hope to get the correct answer. You may ignore the basement, the EPlus simulation will not. I mentioned to you last time that, if you use templates in the IDF, do not use the IDFeditor to sort or change the expIDF and then send me the IDF. It is quite difficult to un-sort the groups and zones. The temperture control does not work for DesignDay simulation, because you have changed some schedules again.
> Dr. Li
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: xing.shi.2006@...
> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 16:26:38 +0800
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] How to reduce "not met hours"
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> Dear All, We have an ASHRAE 90 system 8 baseline building. The E+ model appears to be correct but the "unmet hours" is a little too high. Cooling and heating unmet both exceed 200. According to ASHRAE 90, we should increase the system capacity incrementally until unmet (cooling + heating) is below 300. We changed the sizing factor in Sizing:Parameters but surprisingly found that it had very little effect on the unmet hours.
> Attached is the IDF file. Why is that? What should we do to reduce the unmet hours. Thank you! XS
>
The IDF run on our computer does not have any severe erros and very few warnings. I don't know why it has 5 severe erros on your computer. Jim's advice is very helpful and we will try to do that.
I am not quite sure what you meant by "do not use the IDFeditor". We set up the model using IDFeditor and copied some objects from the example file provided by E+. We then changed some objects based on our building. Are you saying we should not do this?
Thanks!
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, YuanLu Li <yli006@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Xing Your building entry still hve problems (5 severe errors). It is possible that the exported IDF text is not the same as the IDF in the third party software. You should follow the steps given by Jim Dirkes to display the variables and to trace the program operation. It is not possible to control five zones of a large building and hope to get the correct answer. You may ignore the basement, the EPlus simulation will not. I mentioned to you last time that, if you use templates in the IDF, do not use the IDFeditor to sort or change the expIDF and then send me the IDF. It is quite difficult to un-sort the groups and zones. The temperture control does not work for DesignDay simulation, because you have changed some schedules again.
> Dr. Li
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: xing.shi.2006@...
> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 16:26:38 +0800
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] How to reduce "not met hours"
>
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> Dear All, We have an ASHRAE 90 system 8 baseline building. The E+ model appears to be correct but the "unmet hours" is a little too high. Cooling and heating unmet both exceed 200. According to ASHRAE 90, we should increase the system capacity incrementally until unmet (cooling + heating) is below 300. We changed the sizing factor in Sizing:Parameters but surprisingly found that it had very little effect on the unmet hours.
> Attached is the IDF file. Why is that? What should we do to reduce the unmet hours. Thank you! XS
>
__._,_.___
Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx
The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov
The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files.
EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
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