Your diagrams are very well done.
I have added my top down convention and made some comments on yours.
Basically, EPlus started with the confused naming by calling almost everything a node.
There is a zone node. A branch has a inlet node and a outlet node. A loop has two demand side nodes and supply side nodes.
When you assign names to the loops and branches, there were no preference at first. Now the HVAC template will guide you to the naming of the nodes. I am simply following these and combining it with the SVG ordering to come with a set of rules, which are in fact following the basic engineering and drafting rules.
A vector should not be double ended. The arrow mark should be in the middle of a connecting path. All loops should be in the same clockwise or counter clockwise direction. A node connects an output to an input of two or more branch .
A branch always have an input and an output. The mixer and the splitter are two connecting nodes. Therefore the branch have its own inlet and outlet name.
When a branch is connected to another branch, one of the branch node must have the name of the connected branch node. There are two ways to do this. The convention is now to use the outlet name as the inlet name of the following branch. (See HVAC template) This is why I suggested using the arrow to show this relationship, instead of a dot for the node.
When a diagram is in isolation, it does not matter too much. EPlus diagrams are usually following these rules. The flow is usually from left to right for the fluid direction, rather the demand/supply direction.
If you draw a diagram in the horizontal direction, the flow directions are opposite at the top and at the bottom of a loop. This is one reason for making the supply and demand vertical.
The other reason for making the diagram vertical is that the chiller, condenser, tower, etc. can be easily attached with two connecting lines per section. It is easier to scroll and print vertically than horizontally.
I did not drew the sample diagram myself. There are many such diagrams in the EPlus course note.
I used the MSpaint to add comments and draw the additional diagrams.
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: simeonagas@xxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:54:34 +0100
Subject: Ó÷åô: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: [Bldg-sim] Tools to draw HVAC diagrams
Áðï: Linda Lawrie <linda@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Ðñïò: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ÓôÜëèçêå: 2:35 ì.ì. Ôñßôç, 12 Éïõíßïõ 2012
Èåìá: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: [Bldg-sim] Tools to draw HVAC diagrams
__._,_.___
Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx
The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov
The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files.
EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
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I have added my top down convention and made some comments on yours.
Basically, EPlus started with the confused naming by calling almost everything a node.
There is a zone node. A branch has a inlet node and a outlet node. A loop has two demand side nodes and supply side nodes.
When you assign names to the loops and branches, there were no preference at first. Now the HVAC template will guide you to the naming of the nodes. I am simply following these and combining it with the SVG ordering to come with a set of rules, which are in fact following the basic engineering and drafting rules.
A vector should not be double ended. The arrow mark should be in the middle of a connecting path. All loops should be in the same clockwise or counter clockwise direction. A node connects an output to an input of two or more branch .
A branch always have an input and an output. The mixer and the splitter are two connecting nodes. Therefore the branch have its own inlet and outlet name.
When a branch is connected to another branch, one of the branch node must have the name of the connected branch node. There are two ways to do this. The convention is now to use the outlet name as the inlet name of the following branch. (See HVAC template) This is why I suggested using the arrow to show this relationship, instead of a dot for the node.
When a diagram is in isolation, it does not matter too much. EPlus diagrams are usually following these rules. The flow is usually from left to right for the fluid direction, rather the demand/supply direction.
If you draw a diagram in the horizontal direction, the flow directions are opposite at the top and at the bottom of a loop. This is one reason for making the supply and demand vertical.
The other reason for making the diagram vertical is that the chiller, condenser, tower, etc. can be easily attached with two connecting lines per section. It is easier to scroll and print vertically than horizontally.
I did not drew the sample diagram myself. There are many such diagrams in the EPlus course note.
I used the MSpaint to add comments and draw the additional diagrams.
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: simeonagas@xxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:54:34 +0100
Subject: Ó÷åô: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: [Bldg-sim] Tools to draw HVAC diagrams
Maybe the present forum can help on making a database of HVAC diagrans. I teach E+ and I am finding it very challenging to explain the modeling of HVAC systems in E+ that is why I try to draw a lot of diagrams (there are other issues as well like naming nodes and branches etc in an consistent and self explanatory manner).
I think that if we can agree to some basic principles we can start building a database that anyone can contribute.
I attach two examples of such HVAC diagrams that I use in my lectures. I have several others using the same logic. I will be happy to share them (actually I was developing accompanying idfs of a three zone building for each of them but after a while I did not have the time to
update them).
Simos
Áðï: Linda Lawrie <linda@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Ðñïò: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ÓôÜëèçêå: 2:35 ì.ì. Ôñßôç, 12 Éïõíßïõ 2012
Èåìá: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: [Bldg-sim] Tools to draw HVAC diagrams
Plus the EnergyPlus Development Team is a diverse set of
developers -- each of whom is responsible for their own
documentation. For better or worse, we don't have a technical
editing team that massages (or worse, tries to explain) the
concepts. So, the developers do the diagrams in the method they
prefer or is easiest for them or is what they use when they create
technical papers for publication.
At 07:25 AM 6/12/2012, Karen Walkerman wrote:
At 07:25 AM 6/12/2012, Karen Walkerman wrote:
I believe that the diagrams in the manual were created over a number of years as new were implemented. Using a consistent style at this point in time means that someone would have to go back and re-do all the diagrams.
--
Karen
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Pavel Dybskiy <pdybskiy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
-
- Why E+ team doesn't exercise any of those diagram styles consistently
throughout the manuals?
- It's hard to believe that E+ developers don't use anything like Dr.
Li had suggested unless they are ..... born of water and
spirit.
- Is there any historical explanation to that?
- Pavel
-
- On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 7:55 AM, YuanLu Li
<yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
-
- The diatrams are good, except that there are many parallel lines,
because the loops are placed side by side.
-
- If you place the zone on top as the first page, followed by
system, heating/ cooling, condensing, etc. , the demand is always
on top, and supply at the bottom. The diagram would line up with
the IDF and make it a better debugging tool.
-
- Node name and data can be included, 9on screen or on the print out
page) may be even as a separate layer, but displaied together.
Linking the set points with the actuaters and the design values.
-
- Just some suggestions.
-
-
-
- Dr. Li
-
- To:
EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- From:
jeremiah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:29:56 -0700
- Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: [Bldg-sim] Tools to draw HVAC
diagrams
-
- The new design builder
HVAC diagrams (and design tools) are excellent-see attached.. I
recently purchased a copy and took the training. The soon to be released
version also has HVAC templates for ASHRAE system types + more.. If
anyone ever needs an IDF with some specific systems I could produce one
for them rather quickly..
- Jeremiah D. Crossett
- CleanTech Analytics
- 503-688-8951
-
www.cleantechanalytics.com
- This document may contain valuable information proprietary to
CleanTech Analytics which is private and confidential. It may not be
shared, copied, stored or transmitted in any form without the prior
written consent of CleanTech Analytics
- On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 12:16 PM, YuanLu Li
<yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
-
- Your diagrams are very good and well illustrated. However, it
does not have a topological view that shows relationship of the whole
HVAC system.
-
- The attached diagram is modified from the EPlus lecture notes.
-
- Which tool is used to produce the diagram is not important. I
think, the diagram provide more information and in a complete system
view. It can be enhanced to show all the IDF objects, when enlarged
in sections.
-
- The diagram can be enlarged in sections and preserving the
relative demand and supply relationship. More additional
special equipment may be added in the same demand/supply
relationship.
-
- I have also seen one diagram with the demand on top and supply at the
bottom, in three long pages with heating and cooling plants side by
side. If you then add list, connection, equipment side by side
onthe diagram, it make the IDF tracing very easy. Set point managers can
be added to show the set values, and control actuators.
-
- The arrow between the branches should mean "use the outlet node
name as the next inlet node name".
- The round dots should be replaced with an arrow.
-
- The zone and OA mixer box is actually, a mixer and splitter with
by-pass branch inside them.
-
- Infiltration and ventilation in a zone are additional branches
feeding the mixer from OD air, and exhaust the zone air via the
internal splitter to OD.
- I do not like the diagrams in the New OpenStudio. It only show
part of a system. The connection number in the new format are also
not for human interface. Building geometry input is from a third
party.
-
- Dr. Li
-
- To:
bldg-sim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- From: pdybskiy@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 17:45:14 -0400
- Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: [Bldg-sim] Tools to draw HVAC
diagrams
-
- Here is a Visio-made diagram
-
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxMkJIZCZN5ESnJYVFpsR3lTZVk
- What do I miss? Is it satisfactory for a report/manual/paper?
- First round, about 3 hours, about 10 iterations.
- Just one click to get all formatting you need.
- Very fast learning track.
- Very useful Format painter and very flexible connectors
- Less frustrating experience comparing with Word which I used
before.
- Next time, I hope, it's gonna take 20-30 min
- Pavel
- On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 12:08 AM, CleanTech Analytics
<
jeremiah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
- Would you say that Open
studio is finally "ready" for real world projects? I have been
a fan, and have made effort to use it for years but just never
found it to work very well (looks great tho)
- If Open studio has got
the bugs out I am sure many users would jump on board- so is it ready?
- Best regards-
- Jeremiah D. Crossett
- CleanTech Analytics
- 503-688-8951
-
www.cleantechanalytics.com
- This document may contain valuable information proprietary to
CleanTech Analytics which is private and confidential. It may not be
shared, copied, stored or transmitted in any form without the prior
written consent of CleanTech Analytics
- On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Pavel Dybskiy
<pdybskiy@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
- Hi Rob,
- I have installed OpenStudio
- I tried to import one of e+ example files,
SolarCollectorFlatPlateWater.idf.
- It looks like OpenStudio didn't recognize quite a few objects, e.g.
IddObjectType: 'WaterHeater:Mixed'
- Please advise.
- Pavel
- On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Guglielmetti, Robert
<
Robert.Guglielmetti@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
- I would humbly submit OpenStudio
(openstudio.nrel.gov) as a tool
for diagramming these systems. The OpenStudio application has a visual
HVAC system design tab in the interface that has been engineered to allow
idiots like me to create ASHRAE standard system types, and customize from
there as needed. While the graphics may not be super sexy, they tell the
story. Further, after you've dragged and dropped your way to a functional
and valid HVAC system description, you not only have a series of graphics
that illustrate it, you also have underlying code describing this system
in OpenStudio-speak, as well as EnergyPlus-speak, ready for
simulation.
- Rob Guglielmetti
- NREL
- ________________________________________
- From:
bldg-sim-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[
bldg-sim-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pavel Dybskiy
[pdybskiy@xxxxxxxxx]
- Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 9:27 AM
- To:
EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
bldg-sim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Subject: [Bldg-sim] Tools to draw HVAC diagrams
- Sorry for cross-posting,
- Does anyone use MS Visio for sketching HVAC diagrams?
- Is it a good alternative to Ms Word, which is somehow tolerable for
simple diagrams, but gets really out of hands for bigger diagrams?
- The shapes, which are included in Visio, are they helpful,
meaningful, give professional look?
- Somebody is using Excel (might be lacking flexibility when topology
is unknown).
- Somebody is using Inkscape.
- Any other thoughts
- Thank you,
- Pavel Dybskiy
- On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Jim Dirkes
<
jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<
mailto:jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
- No "tool" Pavel, just Excel with formatted cells and arrows - pretty
unsophisticated, but easier (I think) than learning Inkscape. I
know of others using Inkscape, however, and it looks like a very capable
tool.
- The Building Performance Team
- James V. Dirkes II, P.E., BEMP , LEED AP
- 1631 Acacia Drive NW
- Grand Rapids, MI 49504
- 616 450 8653<tel:616%20450%208653>
- From:
EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<
mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[
mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<
mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Pavel
Dybskiy
- Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 6:18 PM
- To:
EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<
mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Tools to draw HVAC diagrams
- Hi Jim,
- What tool do you use to draw your diagram?
- Dear List,
- I'm wondering if you can share your thoughts on your favorite tool to
draft efficiently such diagrams.
- Is there anything better than pencil and paper?
- Thanks,
- Paul
- On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jim Dirkes
<
jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<
mailto:jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
- Dear Forum,
- The schematic I have attached is a common boiler plant piping
configuration in my experience, using an individual constant speed pump
for each boiler, plus a variable speed distribution pump.
- Officially it's a "primary - secondary pumping loop".
- I cannot make the primary pumps shut off when the corresponding
boiler is inactive. Has anyone successfully modeled this
configuration? Do you know of an example file with this
configuration?
- Thanks in advance.
- [cid:image001.jpg@01CD4283.651E5C90]
- Making me think..
- Why is it? We routinely use miracles of creativity and
technology that 50-100 years ago would be considered impossible or black
magic . and also assume that whole segments of society are incapable of
helping themselves or acting intelligently. Is it a
self-fulfilling expectation?
- --
- Best Regards,
- Pavel Dybskiy
- M.A.Sc
<http://M.A.Sc>.
Candidate, Department of Architectural Science
- Faculty of Engineering, Architecture and Science, Ryerson
University
- E-mail:
pdybskiy@xxxxxxxxxx
<
mailto:pdybskiy@xxxxxxxxxx>;
- telephone:
647-984-4940<tel:647-984-4940>
- --
- Best
- -p.d.
- _______________________________________________
- Bldg-sim mailing list
-
http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
- To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to
BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- I would humbly submit OpenStudio
(openstudio.nrel.gov) as a tool
for diagramming these systems. The OpenStudio application has a visual
HVAC system design tab in the interface that has been engineered to allow
idiots like me to create ASHRAE standard system types, and customize from
there as needed. While the graphics may not be super sexy, they tell the
story. Further, after you've dragged and dropped your way to a functional
and valid HVAC system description, you not only have a series of graphics
that illustrate it, you also have underlying code describing this system
in OpenStudio-speak, as well as EnergyPlus-speak, ready for
simulation.
- Hi Rob,
- --
- Best
- -p.d.
- _______________________________________________
- Bldg-sim mailing list
-
http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
- To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to
BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Would you say that Open
studio is finally "ready" for real world projects? I have been
a fan, and have made effort to use it for years but just never
found it to work very well (looks great tho)
- --
- Best
- -p.d.
- You
-
-
- --
- Best
- -p.d.
__._,_.___
Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx
The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov
The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files.
EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
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