Part of the SVG from Germán showed the use of the pumps associated with each heater charging a common storage tank. This is a standard modular configuration. Separate pumps are used when the heat transfer is indirect from each boiler or heater. When a common tank is used, it is not necessary to have so many circulation pumps. A control valve associated with a controller is more flexible for flow control..
The control of the system illustrated is not defined in the SVG. Not all the connections make sense, although they are connected together with no error. It would be interesting to know whether the IDF actually run with good result..
"I use variable speed pumps, setting the curve performance coefficients (1,0,0,0), so power consumption is constant although it can deliver variable flow." I think, this statement need to be verified as well.
For Jim, I think, you or some one else, showed a diagram with two pumps in cascade in a loop. Two constant speed ones and one variable speed. This is a different configuration from that shown in the SVG..
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:44:05 -0400
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Solution to constant branch pumps, when bypass is not possible
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Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx
The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov
The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files.
EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
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The control of the system illustrated is not defined in the SVG. Not all the connections make sense, although they are connected together with no error. It would be interesting to know whether the IDF actually run with good result..
"I use variable speed pumps, setting the curve performance coefficients (1,0,0,0), so power consumption is constant although it can deliver variable flow." I think, this statement need to be verified as well.
For Jim, I think, you or some one else, showed a diagram with two pumps in cascade in a loop. Two constant speed ones and one variable speed. This is a different configuration from that shown in the SVG..
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:44:05 -0400
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Solution to constant branch pumps, when bypass is not possible
I am just catching up to this discussion and looked at the SVG to see what it was about. After looking, I echo Mario ? this looks like a big leap forward! I will be experimenting with these capabilities.
p.s., No one told Germán that what he wanted to do was ?impossible?, so he did the impossible. Good for him!
The Building Performance Team
James V. Dirkes II, P.E., BEMP , LEED AP
1631 Acacia Drive NW
Grand Rapids, MI 49504
616 450 8653
From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mário
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 5:43 AM
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Solution to constant branch pumps, when bypass is not possible
Thank you for uploading the file.
First of all congratulations, Germán, it look's really good, and second congratulations for the E+ team for integrating all the changes to the plant routines, this is wonderfull.
I think E+ just took a giant leap in the direction of being the reference software regarding whole building energy modeling.
Best Regards
MN
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "ecoeficientees" <ecoeficiente@...> wrote:
>
> I have uploaded the svg file in the User Exchange folder with the name demandbranchpumps.svg.
>
> Regards,
>
> Germán.
>
> --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Mário <mneves32@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Once Again,
> >
> > Sorry if try to be objective.
> >
> > In the past I have tried to simulate what you "apparently" are posting.
> >
> > This is my only interest in this issue.
> >
> > Anyway, instead of the idf why don´t you upload the SVG diagram?
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> > MN
> >
> >
> > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "ecoeficientees" <ecoeficiente@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, Linda you are right, the best way is usually to look at the model. In my case I have a quite complex idf file but I have no problem to upload. In any case, the way to ask by the user was too short and direct for me...
> > >
> > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Linda Lawrie <linda@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Because it is always easier to look at someone's
> > > > example than to try to recreate it from a brief description.
> > > >
> > > > Just because EnergyPlus does not complain -- does
> > > > not mean that things will work correctly.
> > > >
> > > > At 09:52 AM 6/18/2012, ecoeficientees wrote:
> > > > >What for? My message is not related to an specific idf file.
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Mário <mneves32@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can YOu upload the idf?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > MN
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
> > > > > "ecoeficientees" <ecoeficiente@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am using a configuration for branch pumps when in the real HVAC system
> > > > > > > they are constant flow pumps with bypass (through three-way valves).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I use variable speed pumps, setting the curve performance coefficients
> > > > > > > (1,0,0,0), so power consumption is constant although it can deliver
> > > > > > > variable flow.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think it is a good solution to account for a constant pump with
> > > > > > > bypass, since it provides variable flow but constant power. It is the
> > > > > > > only way I have found to account for constant pumps as branch pumps,
> > > > > > > since bypass is not possible.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you see it right?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It seems to work ok even with branch pumps in demand side, which should
> > > > > > > not work according to E+ Reference but Energyplus is not complaining.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's my second doubt, are branch pumps in demand side correct? As I've
> > > > > > > said, E+ seems to simulate them right, but Engineering Reference says
> > > > > > > that pumps in demand side can only be used in the first branch. Why is
> > > > > > > not Energyplus launching an error, then?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Germán Campos.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
> > > > >http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a
> > > > >message to energyplus-support@
> > > > >
> > > > >The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > > >http://www.energyplus.gov
> > > > >
> > > > >The group web site is:
> > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > > > >
> > > > >Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful
> > > > >that not everyone has a high speed
> > > > >connection. Limit attachments to small files.
> > > > >
> > > > >EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open
> > > > >EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
> > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
First of all congratulations, Germán, it look's really good, and second congratulations for the E+ team for integrating all the changes to the plant routines, this is wonderfull.
I think E+ just took a giant leap in the direction of being the reference software regarding whole building energy modeling.
Best Regards
MN
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "ecoeficientees" <ecoeficiente@...> wrote:
>
> I have uploaded the svg file in the User Exchange folder with the name demandbranchpumps.svg.
>
> Regards,
>
> Germán.
>
> --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Mário <mneves32@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Once Again,
> >
> > Sorry if try to be objective.
> >
> > In the past I have tried to simulate what you "apparently" are posting.
> >
> > This is my only interest in this issue.
> >
> > Anyway, instead of the idf why don´t you upload the SVG diagram?
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> > MN
> >
> >
> > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "ecoeficientees" <ecoeficiente@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, Linda you are right, the best way is usually to look at the model. In my case I have a quite complex idf file but I have no problem to upload. In any case, the way to ask by the user was too short and direct for me...
> > >
> > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Linda Lawrie <linda@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Because it is always easier to look at someone's
> > > > example than to try to recreate it from a brief description.
> > > >
> > > > Just because EnergyPlus does not complain -- does
> > > > not mean that things will work correctly.
> > > >
> > > > At 09:52 AM 6/18/2012, ecoeficientees wrote:
> > > > >What for? My message is not related to an specific idf file.
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Mário <mneves32@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can YOu upload the idf?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > MN
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
> > > > > "ecoeficientees" <ecoeficiente@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am using a configuration for branch pumps when in the real HVAC system
> > > > > > > they are constant flow pumps with bypass (through three-way valves).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I use variable speed pumps, setting the curve performance coefficients
> > > > > > > (1,0,0,0), so power consumption is constant although it can deliver
> > > > > > > variable flow.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think it is a good solution to account for a constant pump with
> > > > > > > bypass, since it provides variable flow but constant power. It is the
> > > > > > > only way I have found to account for constant pumps as branch pumps,
> > > > > > > since bypass is not possible.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you see it right?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It seems to work ok even with branch pumps in demand side, which should
> > > > > > > not work according to E+ Reference but Energyplus is not complaining.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's my second doubt, are branch pumps in demand side correct? As I've
> > > > > > > said, E+ seems to simulate them right, but Engineering Reference says
> > > > > > > that pumps in demand side can only be used in the first branch. Why is
> > > > > > > not Energyplus launching an error, then?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Germán Campos.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
> > > > >http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a
> > > > >message to energyplus-support@
> > > > >
> > > > >The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > > >http://www.energyplus.gov
> > > > >
> > > > >The group web site is:
> > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > > > >
> > > > >Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful
> > > > >that not everyone has a high speed
> > > > >connection. Limit attachments to small files.
> > > > >
> > > > >EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open
> > > > >EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
> > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
__._,_.___
Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx
The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov
The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files.
EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
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