Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Tracking down temperatures too high [4 Attachments]

["Jeremiah Crossett jcrossett@xxxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support]" <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Jim, 

Thanks for the suggestions- yes I added a controller and it did not get the file to run. This is the same model I posted last month regarding Thermally active slab in a net zero swiss office building that uses tap water for cooling supply and tap water with a heat pump for heating supply to charge the thermally ascive slabs at night to provide daytime comfort control, along with fans for outside air. 

In this model, I started with a design builder model for chilled ceilings, and another for heated floors. Then, in Araxis merge to change make change the cooling loops to run through the floors. Also made another with an ideal loads system and in it worked out all of the internal loads and building envelope to match the design and replaced the HVAC systems from ideal loads to the building design.  Finally, I changed the vertical loop geothermal system to a temperature source object through all branches, but using the same nodes as was generated in the design builder vertical loop geothermal model. 

This resulted in a model with a DOAS and no cooling coil that had too hot of temperatures and a warning regarding a missing outside air controller that crashed if I added the controller it did not work and had an error that indicated a cooling cool was needed. I then made another version of the design builder with a cooling coil in the DOAS, but it does has fatal errors. In an attempt to stop the negative cooling loads that seemed to be from having the system on a dual setpoint thermostat I changed to a single setpoint cooling, set heating sizing to zero and removed the heating design day. Now it has new fatal errors. 

I also tried:

Zone exhaust and simple ventilation objects for the air system.  

Change the HeatPump:WaterToWater:EquationFit:Cooling to a CentralHeatPumpSystem, but the node manager in IDF editor did not work and the model did not seem to have proper temperature control. This option would have been nice as it would have allowed the source water temperature to be cool enough to not need to use the heat pump during summer while using the heat pump during winter. 

Now I am trying to choose the best path forward. It seems that the temperature source object should work,  or perhaps I should go back to the CentralHeatPumpSystem with a ChillerHeaterPerformance:Electric:EIR object, or perhaps a district heating or cooling object.  I am fine with using one model for heating season and another for cooling season since a heating and cooling loop can not be in the same surface and the HeatPump:WaterToWater:EquationFit:Cooling object can not be used on the same loop as the HeatPump:WaterToWater:EquationFit:Heating. 

Honestly, this model has taken too long and I am hopeful that the list can help to point me in a more productive direction than I have been working so far.. 

Thanks for any further help or recommendations you or anyone else on the list may have for this model- 

Jeremiah Crossett | Chief Technological Officer | NRGSIM INC. | 7409 SW Capitol Highway Portland OR, 97219 | 503-688-8951 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 5:48 AM, Jim Dirkes jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support] <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 

Jeremiah,

1. I did NOT look at the IDF (no time for that today)
2. should the "Air Loop" have a controller?  Most do and if you're lacking one, the controls may not know what to do.
3. Why does the cooling capacity go below 0?  That, too, is unusual and may indicate why your temps are too high.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 12:11 AM, Jeremiah Crossett jcrossett@xxxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support] <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 

Dear List, 

I have this model that is giving me trouble and I am not sure where to look next in tracking down the issue. It seems that the temperature source object and heat pump system is somehow getting very when it should be cool. Everything is autosized and seems to be setup correctly, but the model crashes from too high of temperatures. Any help or suggestions are appreciated, many thanks. 

Program Version,EnergyPlus, Version 8.8, YMD=2016.03.03 14:10,IDD_Version 8.8.0.009

   ** Warning ** Version: in IDF="8.1" not the same as expected="8.8.0"

   ************* Beginning Zone Sizing Calculations

   ************* Beginning System Sizing Calculations

   ** Warning ** GetAirPathData: AirLoopHVAC="AIR LOOP" has no Controllers.

   ************* Beginning Plant Sizing Calculations

   ************* Testing Individual Branch Integrity

   ************* All Branches passed integrity testing

   ************* Testing Individual Supply Air Path Integrity

   ************* All Supply Air Paths passed integrity testing

   ************* Testing Individual Return Air Path Integrity

   ************* All Return Air Paths passed integrity testing

   ************* No node connection errors were found.

   ************* Beginning Simulation

   ** Warning ** GetDensityGlycol: Temperature is out of range (too high) for fluid [WATER] density **

   **   ~~~   ** ..Called From:NodeReportingCalc:HEAT PUMP COOLING CONDENSER OUTLET NODE,Temperature=[100.30], supplied data range=[0.00,100.00]

   **   ~~~   **  Environment=LUGANO, at Simulation time=02/10 06:20 - 06:30

   ** Warning ** HeatPump:WatertoWater:EquationFit:Cooling "HEAT PUMP COOLING":

   **   ~~~   **  Cooling capacity curve output is <= 0.0 (-1.7242).

   **   ~~~   **  Zero or negative value occurs with a load-side inlet temperature of 23.55 C,

   **   ~~~   **  a source-side inlet temperature of 105.47 C,

   **   ~~~   **  a load-side mass flow rate of 0.173 kg/s,

   **   ~~~   **  and a source-side mass flow rate of 0.569 kg/s.

   **   ~~~   **  The heat pump is turned off for this time step but simulation continues.

   **   ~~~   **  Environment=LUGANO, at Simulation time=02/10 09:10 - 09:20

   ** Warning ** GetSpecificHeatGlycol: Temperature is out of range (too high) for fluid [WATER] specific heat **

   **   ~~~   ** ..Called From:PlantLoopSolver::UpdateAnyLoopDemandAlterations,Temperature=[125.11], supplied data range=[0.00,125.00]

   **   ~~~   **  Environment=LUGANO, at Simulation time=04/06 16:20 - 16:30

   ************* Simulation Error Summary *************

   ** Warning ** The following Report Variables were requested but not generated

   **   ~~~   ** because IDF did not contain these elements or misspelled variable name -- check .rdd file

   ************* Key=*, VarName=ELECTRICITYPURCHASED:FACILITY, Frequency=Annual

   ************* There are 68 unused schedules in input.

   ************* Use Output:Diagnostics,DisplayUnusedSchedules; to see them.

   *************

   ************* ===== Recurring Error Summary =====

   ************* The following recurring error messages occurred.

   *************

   *************  ** Warning ** Plant loop exceeding upper temperature limit, PlantLoop="CONDENSER LOOP"

   *************  **   ~~~   **   This error occurred 104020 total times;

   *************  **   ~~~   **   during Warmup 0 times;

   *************  **   ~~~   **   during Sizing 0 times.

   *************  **   ~~~   **   Max=147.629273

   *************

   *************  ** Warning ** GetDensityGlycol: Temperature out of range (too high) for fluid [WATER] density **

   *************  **   ~~~   **   This error occurred 1491774 total times;

   *************  **   ~~~   **   during Warmup 0 times;

   *************  **   ~~~   **   during Sizing 0 times.

   *************  **   ~~~   **   Max=147.629273 {C}  Min=100.008674 {C}

   *************

   *************  ** Warning ** HeatPump:WatertoWater:EquationFit:Cooling "HEAT PUMP COOLING": Cooling capacity curve output is <= 0.0 warning continues...

   *************  **   ~~~   **   This error occurred 20992 total times;

   *************  **   ~~~   **   during Warmup 0 times;

   *************  **   ~~~   **   during Sizing 0 times.

   *************  **   ~~~   **   Max=-1.890814E-003  Min=-832.566864

   *************

   *************  ** Warning ** GetSpecificHeatGlycol: Temperature out of range (too high) for fluid [WATER] specific heat **

   *************  **   ~~~   **   This error occurred 2154094 total times;

   *************  **   ~~~   **   during Warmup 0 times;

   *************  **   ~~~   **   during Sizing 0 times.

   *************  **   ~~~   **   Max=148.423393 {C}  Min=125.012047 {C}

   *************

   ************* EnergyPlus Warmup Error Summary. During Warmup: 0 Warning; 0 Severe Errors.

   ************* EnergyPlus Sizing Error Summary. During Sizing: 1 Warning; 0 Severe Errors.

   ************* EnergyPlus Completed Successfully-- 3770884 Warning; 0 Severe Errors; Elapsed Time=00hr 13min 58.86sec

Jeremiah Crossett | Chief Technological Officer | NRGSIM INC. | 7409 SW Capitol Highway Portland OR, 97219 | 503-688-8951 

--

James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP
CEO/President
The Building Performance Team Inc.
1631 Acacia Dr, GR, Mi 49504

Direct: 616.450.8653
jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Posted by: Jeremiah Crossett <jcrossett@xxxxxxxxxx>

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