[Equest-users] Baseline Modeling as per LEEDdistrictcoolingrequirements

[Cam Fitzgerald]

Sam, et al,

 

Agreeably, the language in the description of the step 2 requirements is
somewhat ambiguous at best.  If this description is used without looking
at Table 4 on the following page, the baseline HVAC system requirements
for the aggregate model could easily be misinterpreted.  However, Table
4 clearly mentions both gas furnaces and packaged equipment for the
baseline systems.  I suggest using the system types as described in
Table 4 in spite of Heather's recent review experience.

 

Keep in mind that previous reviews do not set precedent for future
reviews and the reviewers are mere mortals like the rest of us!  Good
luck and have a great day!

 

Cam Fitzgerald

 

From: Sam Mason [mailto:sam.mason at atelierten.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:40 PM
To: Heather.Hardie-Hill at CH2M.com; Cam Fitzgerald; malmasri at ems-int.com;
eQUEST-users at onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Baseline Modeling as per
LEEDdistrictcoolingrequirements

 

Thanks for the response with a real project outcome.  The sentence
Heather highlights below is my reasoning for keeping fan coils in both
cases.

 

Hopefully the new DES guidelines will provide a more clear path for this
type of modeling (Through the grapevine it is drafted and awaiting
release).

 

Sam

 

--

Sam Mason

Atelier Ten

 

From: Heather.Hardie-Hill at CH2M.com [mailto:Heather.Hardie-Hill at CH2M.com]

Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:39 PM
To: cam at energyopportunities.com; Sam Mason; malmasri at ems-int.com;
eQUEST-users at onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Baseline Modeling as per
LEEDdistrictcoolingrequirements

 

I just went through a review process for this!

 

I initially interpreted it the same way the Cam says below however the
LEED reviewer disagreed with me and said I should model it as Sam
describes below.

 

I think the catch is this: on page 6 it says " For such projects the
secondary equipment within the building is modeled as described in table
3 above (i.e., the same way as in step 1" it also says "The proposed
case modeling requirements differ from those in ASHRAE 90.1-2004
Appendix G; however, the baseline case is modeled as instructed in
Appendix G."... I think what this means is that the baseline models
should be the same in both case 1 and case 2... and everything should be
modeled as described in appendix G except the specific type of system as
listed in table 3.

 

if the above sounds confusing feel free to call me.

 

Heather Hardie-Hill

EIT, LEEDTM AP

Advanced Design and Simulation

 

CH2M HILL

Industrial & Advanced Technologies

2020 SW Fourth Ave

Portland, OR 97201

ph: (503).872.4509

e: heather.hardie-hill at ch2m.com

 


-----Original Message-----
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> ] On Behalf Of Cam
Fitzgerald
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:11 AM
To: Sam Mason; Mohammad Almasri; eQUEST-users at onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Baseline Modeling as per LEED
districtcoolingrequirements

All:

I hate to disagree with Sam's response, but on page 6 of the USGBC DES
document the description of the Model for Step 2 states, "The proposed
case modeling requirements differ from those in ASHRAE 90.1-2004
Appendix G; however, the baseline case is modeled as instructed in
Appendix G."  So for step 2 the baseline HVAC systems for the
residential spaces would be PTHP, not AHU's as required for step 1.

Hope this helps!

Cam S. Fitzgerald, PE, LEED AP

Energy Opportunities, LLC
a 7group company

 -----Original Message-----
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> ] On Behalf Of Sam
Mason
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 9:50 AM
To: Mohammad Almasri; eQUEST-users at onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Baseline Modeling as per LEED
districtcoolingrequirements

Mohammad,
You will keep the same the same system from step 1 to step 2 - fan coils
with hot water boiler - per Table 3 in the DES guidelines. In step 2,
you will create a minimally compliant cooling plant based on Appendix G
modeling parameters and attach the fan coils to the plant.

Sam
--
Sam Mason
Atelier Ten


-----Original Message-----
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> ] On Behalf Of
Mohammad Almasri
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 8:38 AM
To: eQUEST-users at onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Baseline Modeling as per LEED district
coolingrequirements

Hi all,

I Am working now on a Residential tower supplied by a district cooling
plant . The proposed design completed as per the LEED required treatment
of district cooling . and two model performed (one with virtual chillers
and the other one with chilled water meter to reflect the chilled water
cost).

The problem that I have now is in the baseline.

In step one (modeled as cost neutral), the document say that the system
will be based on table 3 instead of ASHRAE appendix G , system 2 (FCU
will be use instead of PTHP).

Now for step two , what the system will be ; it should be a PTHP or a
FCU with a chillers ?

Please I need your advice .

Best regards,

Mohammad Al-Masri
Simulation Engineer
CAPM,LEED AP BD+C





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