[Equest-users] eQuest: SEER to EIR??

[David Bastow]

My understanding is that that is ARI fan power input based on 365 watts
per 1,000 cfm with the supply air flow rate fixed at 400 cfm per 12,000
BTUH of net cooling capacity.  (365 w./1000 cfm) * (400 cfm/12000 BTUH)
= 0.012167  It is my understanding that this is only applicable to
Systems 1, 2, & 3, which are package units (PSZ), (PHP), and (PVAV),
with built in indoor fans.  I don't believe that this is applicable to
all system types.  If you have the correct fan input numbers, for your
particular system, then I would think that probably you would want to
input the correct numbers yourself rather than using the Wizard numbers,
to insure correctness.  My experience has been that use of default
numbers will many times throw your model off.  Of course, unless you
don't have actual numbers to input, and are just approximating your
inputs.
 
David A. Bastow 
McClure Engineering, Inc.  

________________________________

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Hillermann
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:45 PM
To: 'Brett Fero'; 'Peter Hillermann'; 'Josh Greenfield';
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] eQuest: SEER to EIR??



Brett,

 

Thank you for the help I know now what my equation was missing. It's the
-0.012167 and the +0.012167 That's why there was a consistent error. Do
you know what that value is representing, because I know the 3.413 is
the BTU conversion?

 

Thanks,

 

PETER HILLERMANN

 

peterh at westallarchitects.com

 

westall

architects

3404 pierce drive

chamblee, georgia 30341

 

o 770.458.4113

f  770.458.5352

c 678.898.2936

 

westallarchitects.com

  

 

 

 

From: Brett Fero [mailto:bfero at robsonwoese.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:45 PM
To: Peter Hillermann; 'Josh Greenfield';
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] eQuest: SEER to EIR??

 

Peter,

 

If you replace with following to the Cooling EIR calculation in the
middle of the page, the values will be correct for the AC EIR
calculations.

 

Cooling EIR = ((1/EER)-0.012167)/((1/3.413)+0.012167)  (note the
additional parenthesis in the numerator)

                EIR =  ((1/11)-0.012167)/((1/3.413)+0.012167) = 0.258  

This equation is comparable to the EIR equation at the top of the page.

 

However, when given a SEER, I find a difference in the results.

 

EER = SEER x 0.778 + 1.4 = 13 x 0.778 + 1.4 = 11.514

 

EIR = ((1/11.514) - 0.012167)/((1/3.413)+0.012167) = 0.2447, not your
Wizard value of 0.2507

 

 

Brett Fero, P.E., LEED AP

RobsonWoese Inc.

Salina Meadows Office Park

301 Plainfield Road, Suite 180

Syracuse, NY 13212

Phone:   315-445-2650

Fax:  315-445-0958

bfero at robsonwoese.com

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Hillermann
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:22 AM
To: 'Josh Greenfield'; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] eQuest: SEER to EIR??

 

I have the same question as Josh. My value from the wizard is coming out
different from the equation. Even when calculating EER to EIR.

 

Example:

Wizard = EER 11 = 0.258

Calculation = EER 11 =0 .31 (which actually is the default value in my
model when I fire it up)

 

Wizard = EER 12.5 =0.2223

Calculation = EER 12.5 = 0.27

 

Wizard = SEER 13 = 0.2507

Calculation = SEER 13 = 0.296

 

However in my calculations there is a 0.05 difference from wizard to
calculation. (Obviously missing something) Should I just use the wizard
values and be done with it? 

 

Thanks,

 

PETER HILLERMANN

 

peterh at westallarchitects.com

 

westall

architects

3404 pierce drive

chamblee, georgia 30341

 

o 770.458.4113

f  770.458.5352

c 678.898.2936

 

westallarchitects.com

 

 

 

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Josh
Greenfield
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 4:02 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] eQuest: SEER to EIR??

 

Sorry to be beating a dead horse...

 

the attached document has been floating around the boards for awhile in
regards to how an entered EER value in the Wizard gets converted to the
Cooling-EIR value in the Detailed Edit mode, and after doing a few EER
value tests, I can confirm it works...

 

I've also found in various emails the conversions on the heat pump
heating side of COP and HSPF to Heating-EIR, and those work too after
testing various values in the Wizard...

Heating EIR = (1/(COP*3.413)-0.012167)/((1/3.413)-0.012167)

Heating EIR = (1/((HSPF*0.28+1.13)*3.413)-0.012167)/((1/3.413)-0.012167)

 

But I just can't get the SEER to EER conversion from the document (EER =
SEER x 0.778 + 1.4) to work.  I'm assuming that the converted SEER to
EER value then gets put into the working equation from that PDF of
Cooling-EIR = ((1/EER)-0.12167)/((1/3.413)+0.012167)).

 

As an example...if you put in a 13 SEER into the Wizard, a 0.2507
Cooling-EIR value is calculated in the Detailed Edit mode, but if you
use the SEER to EER (13 SEER would equal a 11.514 EER) and then the EER
to EIR equations, it says EIR should be 0.2447.

 

Any help/suggestions would be great...hopefully it's just a math error
on my part.


Josh Greenfield, PE, REP, LEED AP
Energy Services Manager
Associate Vice President
312.242.6392 Direct
jgreenfield at primerachicago.com
<blocked::mailto:jgreenfield at primerachicago.com> 

 
Primera Engineers, Ltd.
100 S. Wacker Drive, Suite 700
Chicago, IL 60606
312.606.0910 Main
312.606.0415 Fax
http://www.primerachicago.com <http://www.primerachicago.com> 

 

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