[Equest-users] eQuest: SEER to EIR??
Peter Hillermann
e190984026 at exchange.1and1.com
Thu Jun 17 14:26:21 PDT 2010
David,
You are correct. I have been talking with Brett and the constant is for
system 1,2 and 3 and their the fan power. I have since realized that if you
do not switch into detail mode eventually your model will not be refined and
will probably have larger margins of error. I noticed this in my modeling. I
am comparing real data from another similar building to my model of a new
building so it's giving me a benchmark to check my inputs and outputs. This
is why I'm asking so many questions.
The best thing to do for modeling is as someone mentioned earlier. Have
utility bills of a facility you know the reality of and model towards
getting those results accurate, then apply those techniques to your next
model.
Thanks,
PETER HILLERMANN
peterh at westallarchitects.com
westall
architects
3404 pierce drive
chamblee, georgia 30341
o 770.458.4113
f 770.458.5352
c 678.898.2936
westallarchitects.com
e-signatureUSGBC-Logo
From: David Bastow [mailto:dbastow at mcclure-engineering.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 5:12 PM
To: Peter Hillermann; Brett Fero; Peter Hillermann; Josh Greenfield;
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] eQuest: SEER to EIR??
My understanding is that that is ARI fan power input based on 365 watts per
1,000 cfm with the supply air flow rate fixed at 400 cfm per 12,000 BTUH of
net cooling capacity. (365 w./1000 cfm) * (400 cfm/12000 BTUH) = 0.012167
It is my understanding that this is only applicable to Systems 1, 2, & 3,
which are package units (PSZ), (PHP), and (PVAV), with built in indoor fans.
I don't believe that this is applicable to all system types. If you have
the correct fan input numbers, for your particular system, then I would
think that probably you would want to input the correct numbers yourself
rather than using the Wizard numbers, to insure correctness. My experience
has been that use of default numbers will many times throw your model off.
Of course, unless you don't have actual numbers to input, and are just
approximating your inputs.
David A. Bastow
McClure Engineering, Inc.
_____
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Hillermann
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:45 PM
To: 'Brett Fero'; 'Peter Hillermann'; 'Josh Greenfield';
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] eQuest: SEER to EIR??
Brett,
Thank you for the help I know now what my equation was missing. It's the
-0.012167 and the +0.012167 That's why there was a consistent error. Do you
know what that value is representing, because I know the 3.413 is the BTU
conversion?
Thanks,
PETER HILLERMANN
peterh at westallarchitects.com
westall
architects
3404 pierce drive
chamblee, georgia 30341
o 770.458.4113
f 770.458.5352
c 678.898.2936
westallarchitects.com
e-signatureUSGBC-Logo
From: Brett Fero [mailto:bfero at robsonwoese.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:45 PM
To: Peter Hillermann; 'Josh Greenfield'; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] eQuest: SEER to EIR??
Peter,
If you replace with following to the Cooling EIR calculation in the middle
of the page, the values will be correct for the AC EIR calculations.
Cooling EIR = ((1/EER)-0.012167)/((1/3.413)+0.012167) (note the additional
parenthesis in the numerator)
EIR = ((1/11)-0.012167)/((1/3.413)+0.012167) = 0.258
This equation is comparable to the EIR equation at the top of the page.
However, when given a SEER, I find a difference in the results.
EER = SEER x 0.778 + 1.4 = 13 x 0.778 + 1.4 = 11.514
EIR = ((1/11.514) - 0.012167)/((1/3.413)+0.012167) = 0.2447, not your Wizard
value of 0.2507
Brett Fero, P.E., LEED AP
RobsonWoese Inc.
Salina Meadows Office Park
301 Plainfield Road, Suite 180
Syracuse, NY 13212
Phone: 315-445-2650
Fax: 315-445-0958
bfero at robsonwoese.com
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Hillermann
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:22 AM
To: 'Josh Greenfield'; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] eQuest: SEER to EIR??
I have the same question as Josh. My value from the wizard is coming out
different from the equation. Even when calculating EER to EIR.
Example:
Wizard = EER 11 = 0.258
Calculation = EER 11 =0 .31 (which actually is the default value in my model
when I fire it up)
Wizard = EER 12.5 =0.2223
Calculation = EER 12.5 = 0.27
Wizard = SEER 13 = 0.2507
Calculation = SEER 13 = 0.296
However in my calculations there is a 0.05 difference from wizard to
calculation. (Obviously missing something) Should I just use the wizard
values and be done with it?
Thanks,
PETER HILLERMANN
peterh at westallarchitects.com
westall
architects
3404 pierce drive
chamblee, georgia 30341
o 770.458.4113
f 770.458.5352
c 678.898.2936
westallarchitects.com
e-signatureUSGBC-Logo
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Josh
Greenfield
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 4:02 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] eQuest: SEER to EIR??
Sorry to be beating a dead horse.
the attached document has been floating around the boards for awhile in
regards to how an entered EER value in the Wizard gets converted to the
Cooling-EIR value in the Detailed Edit mode, and after doing a few EER value
tests, I can confirm it works.
I've also found in various emails the conversions on the heat pump heating
side of COP and HSPF to Heating-EIR, and those work too after testing
various values in the Wizard.
Heating EIR = (1/(COP*3.413)-0.012167)/((1/3.413)-0.012167)
Heating EIR = (1/((HSPF*0.28+1.13)*3.413)-0.012167)/((1/3.413)-0.012167)
But I just can't get the SEER to EER conversion from the document (EER =
SEER x 0.778 + 1.4) to work. I'm assuming that the converted SEER to EER
value then gets put into the working equation from that PDF of Cooling-EIR =
((1/EER)-0.12167)/((1/3.413)+0.012167)).
As an example.if you put in a 13 SEER into the Wizard, a 0.2507 Cooling-EIR
value is calculated in the Detailed Edit mode, but if you use the SEER to
EER (13 SEER would equal a 11.514 EER) and then the EER to EIR equations, it
says EIR should be 0.2447.
Any help/suggestions would be great.hopefully it's just a math error on my
part.
Josh Greenfield, PE, REP, LEED AP
Energy Services Manager
Associate Vice President
312.242.6392 Direct
<blocked::mailto:jgreenfield at primerachicago.com>
jgreenfield at primerachicago.com
Logo-CMYK-Resume
Primera Engineers, Ltd.
100 S. Wacker Drive, Suite 700
Chicago, IL 60606
312.606.0910 Main
312.606.0415 Fax
<http://www.primerachicago.com> http://www.primerachicago.com
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