[Equest-users] How to model a bldg with different roof levels?
Nick Caton
ncaton at smithboucher.com
Thu Mar 11 14:39:08 PST 2010
I would suggest side-to-side over stacked.
If you position via coordinates, and can get the adjacent planes to be
in the same locations, eQuest recognize the coincident planes and
automate a number of things for you. You cannot do this via stacking
shells on top of each other.
I'd suggest reviewing some specifics regarding how you go about
positioning your shells from this mailing list discussion. I can't seem
to find it in the archive to link to, but Scott Criswell outlined some
pointers pretty helpful to the task at hand. I've copied the discussion
down below for your review =).
I'd also suggest bookmarking this archive search page if you haven't
already - you'll find more information regarding shell placement if you
find further trouble getting your shells to line up just right:
http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
Check out our new web-site @ www.smithboucher.com
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Alex
Krickx
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 4:11 PM
To: Amandeep Singh; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] How to model a bldg with different roof
levels?
It might be easier to make the two shells stacked instead of
side-by-side. That way, you can specify that the top shell is open to
below and by zoning the bottom shell properly, you can make the part
with the high ceiling open to above. Just a thought.
Regards,
Alex Krickx
Alex Krickx
Building Energy Specialist
1250 Elko Dr, Sunnyvale, CA 94089
(t) 408.541.8124
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From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of
Amandeep Singh
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:58 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] How to model a bldg with different roof levels?
Hello everyone,
I was trying to model a bldg with 50% area at 25 feet high and remaining
area at 10 feet. How can I specify different heights in the footprint
of this bldg. in eQUEST? I tried to draw in DD Wizard. First I drew a
footprint with 25-foot height, then I tied to create a new shell with
10-foot height. I wasn't able to put two shells together. Also, I didn't
know how to change exterior walls to interior.
Any help would be appreciated .
Regards,
Aman
Amandeep Singh
Energy Engineer
8690 Balboa Ave, Suite 100
San Diego, CA 92123-1502
858.634.4729 phone
858.244.1178 fax
www.energycenter.org <http://www.energycenter.org/> web
From: Scott Criswell [mailto:scott.a.criswell at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 12:49 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Cc: Nick Caton; Smith, Aaron Matthew
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Roof monitor "Open to Below"
Just wanted to clarify something that could possibly be mis-understood
from Nick's post below, when he states "eQuest will recognize two planes
are on top of each other and default each to be adiabatic or partially
adiabatic".
Also please note that what Nick stated is by no means incorrect - I just
felt compelled to clarify some details here that are not broadly
understood.
Two important points on this topic:
(1) The recognition of coincident walls works only for vertical walls
(side-by-side shells), NOT horizontal walls (shells stacked on top of
each other). When shells in the wizard are placed side-by-side, then
eQUEST can detect this wall coincidence and when generating the detailed
building model will utilize interior, adiabatic walls wherever the
shells are adjoining. However, there is no such roof/floor wall
coincidence intelligence for wizard shells stacked on top of each other.
IN these cases the user should make sure that the Ground Floor
construction of the upper shell is set to "Over Conditioned Space
(adiabatic)" and the Roof Construction is set to "No Exterior Exposure
(adiabatic)".
(2) This vertical wall coincidence checking mechanism lies within the
wizard database and defaulting mechanism and is used to populate the
detailed (DOE-2) model in such a way as to ensure proper model of
side-by-side shells. No such vertical wall coincidence checking exists
when creating (the equivalent of) side-by-side shells in the detailed
interface. When creating such walls in the detailed interface, the user
must indicate wall exposure by creating either exterior or interior
(adiabatic or thermally conductive) walls.
Lastly - our team would like to thank Nick (and many others as well) for
his contributions to this and the Bldg-Sim e-mail lists. His detailed
and accurate explanations are very beneficial to the eQUEST & building
simulation community at large.
- Scott
Nick Caton wrote:
Happy to help - I'll point out further that the important thing when
modeling varying roof heights / monitors using the "cutting method" (and
that is a term I just made up so don't search for that explicitly), to
save yourself some time, is to match vertices when defining the separate
shells. In doing so, eQuest will recognize two planes are on top of
each other and default each to be adiabatic or partially adiabatic.
This is good because on one level you won't accidentally end up with a
lot more exterior wall than you should have. On a further level, it
will save you some time later in identifying which walls need to be tied
to adjacent zones (the adiabatic walls will stand out in spreadsheet
view), if you decide you want to more accurately account for thermal
behavior between the monitor zone(s) and the surroundings by defining
"Next to Space...".
Also, flattery will get you nowhere, but thanks for the model compliment
;).
Cheers!
~Nick
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
Check out our new web-site @ www.smithboucher.com
From: Smith, Aaron Matthew [mailto:SMITHA11 at rpi.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:48 AM
To: Nick Caton; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Roof monitor "Open to Below"
Thanks Nick, this looks exactly like what I want to accomplish. I will
look up the "cutting lines" strategy and see if I can implement it.
Also thank you for sharing the images of your nice looking model.
Cheers,
Aaron
From: Nick Caton [mailto:ncaton at smithboucher.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:33 AM
To: Smith, Aaron Matthew; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Roof monitor "Open to Below"
I think you've identified the root of your problem - I'm unsure that
there's any way to get light in one shell to transmit to another.
Attached and below is an example of a project with a lot of roof
monitors that does successfully measure and account for daylighting in
those spaces. A picture speaks a thousand words, so see if this
matches what you were thinking to accomplish.
Each monitor is a single zone and shell (i.e. no plenum zone). Sensors
are located either on the floor or at a desk height, as appropriate to
the space usage. Creating the shell that "wraps" around the monitors is
done by using "cutting lines" in the footprint/zoning pattern - you can
read up on that strategy by searching the archives for how courtyards
are modeled.
I'll point out, in terms of accuracy, I have the impression that
eQuest's daylight sensors do not accurately realize the full amount of
light that should be encountered with light shelves, light tubes, or
other means of interreflected daylight, based on my comparative daylight
analyses using AGI32 (which I've learned to use accurately for daylight
modeling). The DOE2 help files I think also allude to this - It's
something to keep in mind if you have a lot of monitor overhangs, again
as with the example below.
~Nick
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
Check out our new web-site @ www.smithboucher.com
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [
mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Smith,
Aaron Matthew
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:42 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] Roof monitor "Open to Below"
Hello E-quest group,
I am working on ways to implement Equest in my workflow for the purpose
of daylighting design evaluation, and I am having trouble implementing a
roof monitor. I have read the help files that describe the limitations
of Equest to perform daylighting calculations, but I have also seen that
some people have been able to implement multilevel atriums and I have
seen one application of a roof monitor. Anyways I want to give it a go
before I start programming in Daylight Factors.
Attached is an example building I would like to be able to evaluate. My
evaluation goal is to put a light meter on the bottom zone under the
monitor and see what results pop out in the detailed daylighting summary
reports (LS-G, LS-J, ect.) I would like to compare Equest results to the
results of other software/calculations/measurements I am investigating,
however it seems that no light from the roof monitor is making it to the
bottom zone.
The bottom shell is all one zone and the top is all one zone. I have
found that it is necessary that the bottom zone have windows or else no
daylighting dialog screen shows up in the DD wizard, and that means no
light meter. At first I tried to make the top zone "open to below" and
then in the detailed edit mode moved the light meter under the monitor,
but the results do not indicate any light is making it from the roof
monitor to the bottom zone.
I was hoping some of you might have some suggestions to help implement
this roof monitor setup.
Thanks,
Aaron
Aaron Smith
Sr. Research Specialist
smitha11 at rpi.edu
Lighting Research Center
21 Union Street
Troy, NY 12180
p. 518.687.7167
f. 518.687.7120
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