[Equest-users] Minimum Efficiency System 5

Cam Fitzgerald cam at energyopportunities.com
Wed May 5 05:32:31 PDT 2010


Bill & Pasha:

 

Not to belabor the point, but I suggest (again) you look in the ASHRAE HVAC Systems and Equipment Handbook.  In the 2004 edition Chapter 45 provides detailed descriptions of Unitary Air Conditioners and Heat Pumps and Chapter 46 covers Room Air Conditioners and Packaged Terminal Air Conditioners.  If you do not have this reference, I strongly suggest you acquire it since understanding the various system types is crucial to the correct application of ASHRAE 90.1.

 

Cam S. Fitzgerald, PE, LEED AP

 

Energy Opportunities, LLC

a 7group company

e-mail:  fitzgerald at sevengroup.com

 

From: Pasha Korber-Gonzalez [mailto:pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 10:24 PM
To: Bishop, Bill
Cc: Demba Ndiaye; Cam Fitzgerald; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Minimum Efficiency System 5

 

I agree with Bill, he stated better than I could when he said, "I don't see where units in Table 6.8.1A are necessarily rooftop units per the Table G3.1.1B requirement."

 

 pasha

 

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Bishop, Bill <wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com> wrote:

So what's the difference (other than minimum efficiency) between a 230,000 Btu/h single package air conditioner in Table 6.8.1A and a 230,000 Btu/h single package vertical air conditioner in Table 6.8.1D?

 

I guess the SPVAC is installed on an outside wall (per the definition in Section 3.2), but I don't see where units in Table 6.8.1A are necessarily rooftop units per the Table G3.1.1B requirement.

 

William Bishop, EIT, BEMP, LEED® AP | Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP

Mechanical Engineer

 

134 South Fitzhugh Street
Rochester, NY 14608
T: (585) 325-6004 Ext. 114
F: (585) 325-6005

wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com

www.pathfinder-ea.com <http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/> 

P Please strive to live sustainably.

________________________________

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Demba Ndiaye
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 3:07 PM
To: Pasha Korber-Gonzalez; Cam Fitzgerald 


Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Minimum Efficiency System 5

 

You indeed have to use Table 6.8.1A. The units in Table D are for the terminal units (they are normally un-ducted, in direct contact with the space they serve).

 

_____________

Demba NDIAYE

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Pasha Korber-Gonzalez
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:58 PM
To: Cam Fitzgerald
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Minimum Efficiency System 5

 

Cam,

 

I'm curious to where you found the reference for a "single package" sub-category and how it is pointing to table A to be used for performance factors of packaged equipment as opposed to table D which is specific to packaged a/c units.   

 

I looked back through 90.1 and can't find any notes or guidance to follow your recommendation to point me to table 6.8.1A.  Can you please provide more specific reference to where you are getting this info from Appendix G?   This could be a significant thing for the rest of us to learn and for me to correct if I have missed the info you are refering to.

 

Thanks for your help on this.

 

pasha

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 6:30 AM, Cam Fitzgerald <cam at energyopportunities.com> wrote:

Omer:

 

For system type 5 you should be using sub-category "single package" with the appropriate heating section type from Table 6.8.1A.  Table 6.8.1D applies to system types 1 and 2, small packaged terminal units.

 

Hope this helps.  Have a great day!

 

Cam S. Fitzgerald, PE, LEED AP

 

Energy Opportunities, LLC

a 7group company

e-mail:  fitzgerald at sevengroup.com

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Pasha Korber-Gonzalez
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 5:30 AM
To: Ömer Moltay
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org 


Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Minimum Efficiency System 5

 

Omer,

 

I would use 6.8.1D.  Just because you are looking at a COP value doesn't mean that it wasn't originally an EER or SEER value, you might want to back out the EER value from your equivalent COP and see if you can reference it from the 6.8.1D table for Packaged equipment performance.

 

pasha

2010/5/4 Ömer Moltay <omoltay at mimtarch.com>

Dear All,

 

 

What would you choose as the minimum efficiency for baseline modelling for the DX cooling (923 kW) of System Type 5 from Appendix G (Packaged rooftop VAV with reheat)? I am looking at a model previously done by someone else and the COP has been chose as 2.96, which could mean that they have used Table 6.8.1A - Condensing units, air cooled. But I am not sure if this should be correct.

 

Thanks,

 

Ömer Moltay, LEED AP
Mimta Ltd.
Hekimsuyu Cad. 559. Sk. No:39
34255 Kucukkoy Istanbul Turkey
Tel: 90-212-617-2296
Fax: 90-212-617-2297
www.mimtarch.com <http://www.mimtarch.com/> 

 

Sürdürülebilir Binalar Blog
http://surdurulebilirbina.blogspot.com <http://surdurulebilirbina.blogspot.com/> 

 

Green Building in Turkey on LinkedIn
http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2278249

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Piyush Varma <mailto:varpiyush at gmail.com>  

	To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org 

	Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:55 AM

	Subject: [Equest-users] Queries

	 

	Hi all, 

	 

	I am an eQuest newbie and had 2 small queries which hopefully would be answered.

	 

	01. What's the logic behind eQuest giving positive (+ve) Cooling Loads & (-ve) negative Heating Loads. (I made an Admittance Method Algorithm & it gives me the opposite values, eQuest i.e. negative cooling loads & +ve heating loads, have checked all sign convention...can't figure out why? My algorithm simulates for Delhi's (India) climate predominantly, cooling loads.

	 

	02. I have asked this before...is there any library for data of alternating solar gain factors, especially for Delhi, India. (As far as i believe it does'nt take into account the alternating solar gain factor...) 

	 

	hope these get resolved soon, thanks in advance.

	 

	Regards,

	Piyush

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