[Equest-users] Floor that is situated partly below the grade

[Самолётов Михаил]

Thank you, Pasha!

I understood)

I wasn`t write right. I already have one shell with two floors (below & above grade). And I did as You written in first way.)



Sincerely yours,
Mikhail Samoletov
Chief engineer of
"Numerical Simulation Department"
TECHNIQUE BUREAU
Cvetochnaya str, 25"Zh", 196084 St.Petersburg, Russia
www.bt-comfort.ru
phone/fax +7 (812) 318-50-30
mob. +7 (931) 244-83-77

From: Pasha Korber-Gonzalez [mailto:pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 11:15 PM
To: Самолётов Михаил
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Floor that is situated partly below the grade

Hi Mikhail,

The anser to your question is No.  But you can get there in a couple ways...

Do you have one shell for the underground and one shell for the above ground = 2 shells?  If so, you should change this to 1 shell with below & above grade floors.  You specifiy this on screen 1 of the shell wizard.  When you have one shell you can go and use the atrium check box and then you will have what you are asking.

OR

If you do have 2 shells from the above question, then you will have to wait until you go into DDedit mode and then you will have to actually delete the internal floor between the two spaces where you want the atrium to be.

Pasha




2010/10/26 Самолётов Михаил <samoletov.mikhail at bt-comfort.ru<mailto:samoletov.mikhail at bt-comfort.ru>>
Pasha, thanks. I have found "atrium" checkbox.

But, now I have new questions about atrium.
If I have two floors shell (one above and one below grade) and "atrium" checkbox is switched on. Are my floors going to be merged in one volume and so I`ll fix my problem with floor that is situated partly below the grade?

Sincerely yours,
Mikhail Samoletov
Chief engineer of
"Numerical Simulation Department"
TECHNIQUE BUREAU
Cvetochnaya str, 25"Zh", 196084 St.Petersburg, Russia
www.bt-comfort.ru<http://www.bt-comfort.ru/>
phone/fax +7 (812) 318-50-30
mob. +7 (931) 244-83-77

From: Pasha Korber-Gonzalez [mailto:pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com<mailto:pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com>]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 9:17 PM
To: Самолётов Михаил

Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Floor that is situated partly below the grade

When you are in the custom zone screen in the wizard, you can go to the custom zone names button and in there you can select the zone that should act like an "atrium".

The other way to think about modeling atriums is to model them as they are (one floor stacked on top of another) but without an actual floor surface in between.   In your model your zones will be assumed to be equal conditioning requirments so that the floor between the "atrium" spaces is modeled as adiabatic with no thermal exchange between these zones.

Now you have to remember that DOE2 & eQuest is a STATIC modeling program, it cannot accurate model airflow & exchange between zones to give you a true thermal  analysis of the behavvoiur of the spaces with each other.  You can merely "represent" the concept of th design in the model, but it won't be accurate for real life.

Does this help?

Pasha
2010/10/25 Самолётов Михаил <samoletov.mikhail at bt-comfort.ru<mailto:samoletov.mikhail at bt-comfort.ru>>
Pasha, Thanks for advice.
But probably there are any possibility to make "two rows of windows"  floors? I mean, to do something look like atrium (one volume on few floors).


Sincerely yours,
Mikhail Samoletov
Chief engineer of
"Numerical Simulation Department"
TECHNIQUE BUREAU
Cvetochnaya str, 25"Zh", 196084 St.Petersburg, Russia
www.bt-comfort.ru<http://www.bt-comfort.ru/>
phone/fax +7 (812) 318-50-30
mob. +7 (931) 244-83-77

From: Pasha Korber-Gonzalez [mailto:pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com<mailto:pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com>]
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:21 PM
To: Grammy
Cc: Самолётов Михаил; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Floor that is situated partly below the grade

Hi Mikhail,

It is not a straight-forward process in eQuest but it can be done.   If I were in your shoes however I wouldn't separate these two constructions in eQuest.   I would do some pre-processing of my inputs on my own with a pencil & calculator.  My approach would be to calculate the area-weighted average for my U-value of the wall based on the following:

(U-value underground const * X% of total wall area) + (U-value above-ground const * 1-X% of total wall area) = Model Wall U-value for my simplified input value.

Where you "manipulate" or process your input data outside of eQuest using sound engineering & mathmatically theory you can simplify your input process significantly.  The challenge & balance to remember is that we have to be careful not to over-simplify our input assumptions too much if they may skew our model results in anyway.  Just like life, good simulation skills are a balancing act.

Also, my Father speaks Russian and if you need more detailed assistance with your energy modeling & eQuest skills I could have him translate for me from English to Russian if this would help you.

Pasha
2010/10/21 Grammy <grammy.hkust at gmail.com<mailto:grammy.hkust at gmail.com>>
Read DOE2.2 Volume, you can build that wall separately, some underground - you can see it in eQuest 3D view, in green color, and some part is upground. Just cut the wall and input the accurate coordinate in detail mode.
2010/10/21 Самолётов Михаил <samoletov.mikhail at bt-comfort.ru<mailto:samoletov.mikhail at bt-comfort.ru>>
I am modeling a two-storied building. It has one floor that is situated partly below the grade. Upper part of this floor lying above the grade and contains few windows. I have not found how to model this in eQUEST. I have tried to make 2 floors instead of the lower floor: one is below and other is above the earth surface, but then they have a ceiling between them! It is wrong, I think! I do not need this additional ceiling in the model.

Is there anybody who speak Russian here? :)

Sincerely yours,
Mikhail Samoletov
Chief engineer of
"Numerical Simulation Department"
TECHNIQUE BUREAU
Cvetochnaya str, 25"Zh", 196084 St.Petersburg, Russia
www.bt-comfort.ru<http://www.bt-comfort.ru/>
phone/fax +7 (812) 318-50-30
mob. +7 (931) 244-83-77



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