[Equest-users] Equest-users Digest, Vol 66, Issue 22
Roger W.
rogerspass at gmail.com
Tue Sep 24 20:50:29 PDT 2013
Hi Ed,
It looks like you also put "Shell Multiplier" as 3 in your first shell and
some of the shells. Since you already have 3 above grade floors, I presume
you are not going to create 3 same shells. I restore all shell multiplier
to default value 1. See attached fig. The the area is now correct around
24209 sf.
Cheers.
Roger
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:02 PM, <equest-users-request at lists.onebuilding.org
> wrote:
> Send Equest-users mailing list submissions to
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> equest-users-request at lists.onebuilding.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> equest-users-owner at lists.onebuilding.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Equest-users digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Building Model appears correct in 3D view, but incorrect
> square footage in reports. (Ed Mahler)
> 2. Re: Building Model appears correct in 3D view, but incorrect
> square footage in reports. (Robert Stephenson)
> 3. Heat pump COP curves (Madjid Madjidi)
> 4. Heating energy backwards (jacob goodman)
> 5. Re: Heating energy backwards (Robby Oylear)
> 6. Re: Heating energy backwards (R B)
> 7. IES VE training - Philadelphia (Nathan Kegel)
> 8. Re: Heat pump COP curves (Bishop, Bill)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ed Mahler <emahler at hughesae.com>
> To: "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org" <
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 20:17:47 +0000
> Subject: [Equest-users] Building Model appears correct in 3D view, but
> incorrect square footage in reports.
>
> Equest Users:****
>
> ** **
>
> Anyone had a similar experience. This file gets errors related to a
> drawing file reference when you initiate. However, this file appears to be
> modeling correctly in 3d view. Originally imported drawing with intent to
> trace and build model from drawing. The drawing still seems to be linked,
> but used direct entry method instead for 3D modeling. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Is there an easy way to keep equest from looking for the once imported
> drawing. I have attached the zipped file for your use in helping me
> resolve this issue. This may or may not be what is causing the incorrect
> square footage on the reports. However, the square footage appears to be
> about twice what it should rightly be. (It should be about 23,240 sq. ft
> instead of 43,394 sq. ft per output report). ****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks for your kind assistance. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Ed Mahler, PE,CEM****
>
> Engineer****
>
> *Hughes Associates Architects and Engineers***
>
> *Architecture* n* **Engineering* n* **Consulting*****
>
> P.O. Box 1034, Roanoke, VA 24005-1034****
>
> 656 Elm Avenue, SW, Roanoke, VA 24016****
>
> Phone: 540.342.4002 n Fax: 540.342.2060****
>
> www.HughesAE.com****
>
> ****
>
> *U.S. Green Building Council Member <http://www.usgbc.com/>*****
>
> *P** **please conserve, do not print this e-mail unless necessary*****
>
> ** **
>
> *"Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I may remember. Involve me and I
> will understand." Ben Franklin *
>
> * *
>
> ** **
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Robert Stephenson <rstephenson at veic.org>
> To: Ed Mahler <emahler at hughesae.com>, "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
> <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 08:59:28 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Building Model appears correct in 3D view, but
> incorrect square footage in reports.
>
> Hi Ed,****
>
> ** **
>
> Typically you can go into the .inp file and remove the test referencing
> your CAD attachment so you no longer get that warning. It looks like you
> are still in Wizard mode though, and I am not used to dealing with .inp
> files in that format. ****
>
> ** **
>
> The square footage you are seeing is likely because the total square
> footage includes your plenum spaces. The actual conditioned space adds up
> to very close to the 23,240 you referenced.****
>
> ** **
>
> Hope that’s helpful.****
>
> ** **
>
> Robert Stephenson****
>
> Technical Energy Analyst****
>
> VEIC Evaluation, Measurement and Verification Services****
>
> Burlington, 05401****
>
> 802 540 7809****
>
> www.veic.org****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Ed Mahler
> *Sent:* Monday, September 23, 2013 4:18 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Building Model appears correct in 3D view, but
> incorrect square footage in reports.****
>
> ** **
>
> Equest Users:****
>
> ** **
>
> Anyone had a similar experience. This file gets errors related to a
> drawing file reference when you initiate. However, this file appears to be
> modeling correctly in 3d view. Originally imported drawing with intent to
> trace and build model from drawing. The drawing still seems to be linked,
> but used direct entry method instead for 3D modeling. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Is there an easy way to keep equest from looking for the once imported
> drawing. I have attached the zipped file for your use in helping me
> resolve this issue. This may or may not be what is causing the incorrect
> square footage on the reports. However, the square footage appears to be
> about twice what it should rightly be. (It should be about 23,240 sq. ft
> instead of 43,394 sq. ft per output report). ****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks for your kind assistance. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Ed Mahler, PE,CEM****
>
> Engineer****
>
> *Hughes Associates Architects and Engineers***
>
> *Architecture* n* **Engineering* n* **Consulting*****
>
> P.O. Box 1034, Roanoke, VA 24005-1034****
>
> 656 Elm Avenue, SW, Roanoke, VA 24016****
>
> Phone: 540.342.4002 n Fax: 540.342.2060****
>
> www.HughesAE.com****
>
> ****
>
> *U.S. Green Building Council Member <http://www.usgbc.com/>*****
>
> *P** **please conserve, do not print this e-mail unless necessary*****
>
> ** **
>
> *"Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I may remember. Involve me and I
> will understand." Ben Franklin *
>
> * *
>
> ** **
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Madjid Madjidi" <madjidi at email.de>
> To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:49:10 +0200 (CEST)
> Subject: [Equest-users] Heat pump COP curves
>
> Dear experts,
>
> how can I modulate the COP of a heat pump in eQUEST in relation to outdoor
> dry bulb temperature, outdoor wetbulb temperature and partial load.
> I see that I can enter the value for electricity input ratio (BTU/BTU) in
> a box (e.g. 0.3) and there are two different fraction curves available which
> can be defined as linear or quadratic or else functions. But it is unclear
> to me how these curves are linked to the EIR value (e.g. EIR x frac1 x frac
> 2 ?)
> and furthermore, how the supplemental heater could be considered. I have
> this problem with the baseline case for a LEED project and the reviewer has
> sent to me the following comment:
>
> It is unclear if the packaged rooftop heat pumps in the Baseline model
> were modeled according to Section G3.1.3.1, which requires that the electric
> airsource heat pumps are modeled with electric auxiliary heat that only
> energizes on the last thermostat stage and when the outdoor air temperature
> is less than 40 degrees F. Per ASHRAE Interpretation 90.1-2007-09, this
> means that the heat pump and auxiliary heat should operate together at low
> temperature conditions, with the compressor as the lead machine. The
> outside air cutoff temperature for the compressor must be no greater than
> the
> temperature associated with the low-temperature heating efficiency
> requirements of Table 6.8.1B (17 degrees F). Note that for packaged heat
> pump
> units smaller than 65,000 Btuh and packaged terminal heat pumps, the HSPF
> rating accounts for electric auxiliary operation, and includes test
> conditions at 17 degrees F.
>
> The interesting aspect is that there is no cop curve specified in ASHRAE
> 90.1. There are only two different values for the COP defined (3,3 and
> 3,22).
> So it seems that for the reference model (baseline) the value could be set
> to constant and I just have to consider three different situations:
>
> toutdb < 17 F --> COP = 1
> toutdb = 17 F --> COP = 2,25
> toutdb > 40 F --> COP = 3,3
>
>
> Is this true ? How should I model that in EQUEST ? Any friendly advise is
> welcome.
>
> Thank you in advance and with best regards
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: jacob goodman <jacobgoodman22 at gmail.com>
> To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:37:07 -0600
> Subject: [Equest-users] Heating energy backwards
> Dear eQuest community,
>
> I am working on a LEED project and have an issue where my higher
> efficiency proposed system is using significantly more gas than the
> baseline system. The proposed system is central AHU with zone VAV terminals
> fed by 96% AFUE boilers. The Baseline system is Appendix G system type 3
> PSZ with 80% efficient gas furnace. I know there are tons of factors that
> go into this. I noticed that the higher baseline fan energy and higher
> lighting load are doing some of the work that the furnaces would do, but
> this doesn't account for the whole difference. Anything that jumps out
> comparing these two systems would be much appreciated.
>
> since I have no one with greater eQuest knowledge in house, I am open to a
> few hours consulting with someone at a reasonable hourly rate if you think
> this could be resolved.
>
> Thanks,
> Jacob
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Robby Oylear <robbyoylear at gmail.com>
> To: jacob goodman <jacobgoodman22 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org" <
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:44:06 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Heating energy backwards
> Anytime that you compare to different system types you're opening yourself
> up to a ton of potential issues just from the differences in how eQUEST
> models each system.
>
> For a VAV system that is using more energy than a packaged single zone
> type system I'd recommend you look into a few things:
> • Night fan cycling - if you've got single duct VAV terminals with reheat,
> your entire AHU system will have to come on to address night heating hours.
> Verify that you have a minimum OA schedule so that you're not ventilating
> the whole building during these hours as well.
> • Minimum airflow setpoints - Verify your minimum airflow setpoints at the
> zone level are correct. This is where most of your reheat energy will come
> from.
>
> Those are the two that come to mind immediately, but there may be other
> potential sources of error. Feel free to attach your building model (.pd2
> & .inp files) to the list and maybe someone can look into it for you in
> more depth.
>
> Hope that helps,
> -Robby
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:37 AM, jacob goodman <jacobgoodman22 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Dear eQuest community,
>>
>> I am working on a LEED project and have an issue where my higher
>> efficiency proposed system is using significantly more gas than the
>> baseline system. The proposed system is central AHU with zone VAV terminals
>> fed by 96% AFUE boilers. The Baseline system is Appendix G system type 3
>> PSZ with 80% efficient gas furnace. I know there are tons of factors that
>> go into this. I noticed that the higher baseline fan energy and higher
>> lighting load are doing some of the work that the furnaces would do, but
>> this doesn't account for the whole difference. Anything that jumps out
>> comparing these two systems would be much appreciated.
>>
>> since I have no one with greater eQuest knowledge in house, I am open to
>> a few hours consulting with someone at a reasonable hourly rate if you
>> think this could be resolved.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jacob
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Equest-users mailing list
>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to
>> EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: R B <slv3sat at gmail.com>
> To: jacob goodman <jacobgoodman22 at gmail.com>, eQUEST Users List <
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 13:04:31 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Heating energy backwards
> Jacob,
> I looked at your file. If you look at the cfm's for each zone, the
> proposed zones have more cfm than baseline. If the cfm is more than
> required, it leads to more reheat energy also - since you have min flows in
> the 30-40% range. You might want to check that or see why the baseline cfmnumbers are lower than proposed (since lighting is reduced to almost half
> in proposed).
> Hope this helps.
> -Rohini
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 12:10 PM, jacob goodman <jacobgoodman22 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the reply! Let me know if you catch anything obvious or any
>> thoughts in general. I don't want to spam the list so I'll just send it to
>> anyone who replies. Thanks so much and I wish there was some kind of hourly
>> help line/service for eQeust or LEED modeling for those of us not fortunate
>> enough to have been doing this for 10 years or have a colleague who has.
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:50 AM, R B <slv3sat at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you send me (or the mailing list) your .inp, .pd2, (for both
>>> baseline and proposed) and weather file, I can take a look at it. If you
>>> send the file to the mailing list, some other folks might also look at it
>>> and give you feedback.
>>> Thanks,
>>> -Rohini
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 11:37 AM, jacob goodman <
>>> jacobgoodman22 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear eQuest community,
>>>>
>>>> I am working on a LEED project and have an issue where my higher
>>>> efficiency proposed system is using significantly more gas than the
>>>> baseline system. The proposed system is central AHU with zone VAV terminals
>>>> fed by 96% AFUE boilers. The Baseline system is Appendix G system type 3
>>>> PSZ with 80% efficient gas furnace. I know there are tons of factors that
>>>> go into this. I noticed that the higher baseline fan energy and higher
>>>> lighting load are doing some of the work that the furnaces would do, but
>>>> this doesn't account for the whole difference. Anything that jumps out
>>>> comparing these two systems would be much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> since I have no one with greater eQuest knowledge in house, I am open
>>>> to a few hours consulting with someone at a reasonable hourly rate if you
>>>> think this could be resolved.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jacob
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Equest-users mailing list
>>>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to
>>>> EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Nathan Kegel <nathan.kegel at iesve.com>
> To: "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org" <
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 18:08:59 +0000
> Subject: [Equest-users] IES VE training - Philadelphia
>
> Apologies for cross-posting.****
>
> ** **
>
> IES is pleased to announce a 2-day intensive training seminar in
> Philadelphia November 18-19. The training will cover all aspects of the VE
> including:****
>
> ** **
>
> **- **Energy****
>
> **- **HVAC loads (room and system peak using ASHRAE Heat Balance
> Method)****
>
> **- **Natural ventilation & mixed-mode systems****
>
> **- **CFD****
>
> **- **Renewable Energy (wind, solar HW, PV)****
>
> **- **LEED credit calculation & documentation (daylight, water,
> energy, occupant comfort, transportation)****
>
> **- **Climate & weather analysis****
>
> **- **Solar shading****
>
> **- **Daylight****
>
> ** **
>
> Additional information and registration is available here: IES VE
> Training Philadelphia<http://www.iesve.com/training/events/VE-Training---Philadelphia--PA/3510>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> As previous sessions have filled up quickly, we recommend reserving your
> spot soon.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> [image: IES] <http://www.iesve.com/>****
>
> *Nathan Kegel*
> *Project Manager*
>
> *Business Development Manager* ****
>
> Minneapolis****
>
> T:****
>
> 763 276 9981****
>
> M:****
>
> 415 420 9314****
>
> http://www.iesve.com ****
>
> **Design, Simulate + Innovate with the *<Virtual Environment>*** ****
>
> Integrated Environmental Solutions Limited. Registered in Scotland No.
> SC151456
> Registered Office - Helix Building, West Of Scotland Science Park, Glasgow
> G20 0SP****
>
> Email Disclaimer <http://www.iesve.com/disclaimer.html> ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Bishop, Bill" <bbishop at pathfinder-ea.com>
> To: Madjid Madjidi <madjidi at email.de>, "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
> <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 19:44:33 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Heat pump COP curves
>
> Matt,****
>
> ** **
>
> I believe a sufficient response to your reviewer’s comment would be to
> verify/set the MIN-HP-T and MAX-HP-SUPP-T in the System -> Heating -> Supp
> Heat/Defrost tab. Minimum HP Heat Temp (MIN-HP-T) should be 17°F and
> Maximum HP Supp Temp (MAX-HP-SUPP-T) should be 40°F. I don’t know how to
> model the requirement that auxiliary (supplemental) heat “only energizes on
> the last thermostat stage”. I’ll assume that eQUEST does that
> automatically, giving preference to the compressor and only adding
> supplemental heat as necessary to meet the loads.****
>
> ** **
>
> [image: Madjid HP.jpg]****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,****
>
> Bill****
>
> ** **
>
> William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, LEED AP | Pathfinder Engineers &
> Architects LLP****
>
> Senior Energy Engineer****
>
> ** **
>
> 134 South Fitzhugh Street Rochester, NY 14608****
>
> T: (585) 325-6004 Ext. 114 F: (585) 325-6005****
>
> bbishop at pathfinder-ea.com www.pathfinder-ea.com****
>
> Sustainability – the forest AND the trees. ****
>
> ** **
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Madjid Madjidi
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:49 AM
> To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: [Equest-users] Heat pump COP curves****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Dear experts,****
>
> ****
>
> how can I modulate the COP of a heat pump in eQUEST in relation to outdoor
> dry bulb temperature, outdoor wetbulb temperature and partial load. I see
> that I can enter the value for electricity input ratio (BTU/BTU) in a box
> (e.g. 0.3) and there are two different fraction curves available which can
> be defined as linear or quadratic or else functions. But it is unclear to
> me how these curves are linked to the EIR value (e.g. EIR x frac1 x frac 2
> ?) and furthermore, how the supplemental heater could be considered. I have
> this problem with the baseline case for a LEED project and the reviewer has
> sent to me the following comment:****
>
> ** **
>
> It is unclear if the packaged rooftop heat pumps in the Baseline model
> were modeled according to Section G3.1.3.1, which requires that the
> electric airsource heat pumps are modeled with electric auxiliary heat that
> only energizes on the last thermostat stage and when the outdoor air
> temperature is less than 40 degrees F. Per ASHRAE Interpretation
> 90.1-2007-09, this means that the heat pump and auxiliary heat should
> operate together at low temperature conditions, with the compressor as the
> lead machine. The outside air cutoff temperature for the compressor must be
> no greater than the temperature associated with the low-temperature heating
> efficiency requirements of Table 6.8.1B (17 degrees F). Note that for
> packaged heat pump units smaller than 65,000 Btuh and packaged terminal
> heat pumps, the HSPF rating accounts for electric auxiliary operation, and
> includes test conditions at 17 degrees F.****
>
> ** **
>
> The interesting aspect is that there is no cop curve specified in ASHRAE
> 90.1. There are only two different values for the COP defined (3,3 and
> 3,22).****
>
> So it seems that for the reference model (baseline) the value could be set
> to constant and I just have to consider three different situations:****
>
> ** **
>
> toutdb < 17 F --> COP = 1****
>
> toutdb = 17 F --> COP = 2,25****
>
> toutdb > 40 F --> COP = 3,3****
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Is this true ? How should I model that in EQUEST ? Any friendly advise is
> welcome. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Thank you in advance and with best regards****
>
> ** **
>
> Matt****
>
> _______________________________________________****
>
> Equest-users mailing list****
>
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org****
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to
> EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG****
>
> _______________________________________________
> Equest-users mailing list
> Equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20130924/e29e50f0/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 44044 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20130924/e29e50f0/attachment.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2684 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20130924/e29e50f0/attachment-0001.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: shell multiplier.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 146562 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20130924/e29e50f0/attachment.jpg>
More information about the Equest-users
mailing list