[BLDG-SIM] getting the whole design team ..., 3D Modeling + E nergy Analysis

Harvey Bryan Harvey.Bryan at asu.edu
Mon Feb 24 10:23:28 PST 2003


Mark,

I would be very interested in participating in such a seminar/symposium.
I've been teaching building energy simulation for over 20 years, mostly to
architectural students. Up until recently it was a very painful experience
(BDL is not a very friendly environment for instruction), however with the
introduction of eQUEST and other friendly interfaces building simulation has
turned into a very exciting class. I have shared some of these experiences
in a paper I wrote for the 2000 ASES conference (I will try finding it in
electronic form and send it off to you). Also IBPSA at it's Chicago meeting
in January approved a contract to develop a series of building simulation
tutorials for educators (I will find out who got the contract and when the
project will be completed). 

Regards

Harvey Bryan. Ph.D.
School of Architecture
Arizona State University
P.O. Box 871605Tempe, AZ. 85287-1605
Tel:	480-965-6094
Fax:	480-965-0968
email:harvey.bryan at asu.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark E. Case [mailto:mcase at etcgrp.com]
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 8:23 AM
To: BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] getting the whole design team ..., 3D Modeling +
Energy Analysis


I've found this discussion of 3D Modeling + Energy Analysis, or getting
the whole design team into the performance assessment game, most
fascinating. I would like to propose a seminar, or series of seminars
and symposiums (documented case studies) on the topic, or various topics
presented in the preceding chain.
I know this isn't necessarily original but to see it discussed on this
particular forum adds, I think, a new dimension. I'm pleasantly
surprised at the number of responses from architects who, by their
presence on BLDG-SIM@ Gard.com obviously pay attention to modeling and
building simulation. 
They could start within a group such as ASHRAE, but would need to branch
out to AIA and other associations. Ideally, we could produce something
to present at local venues, to the local design, owner, operator
community. 
There is time to probably get a seminar at the ASHRAE Winter meeting in
Anaheim, Jan 04. I can think of at least two ASHRAE Technical Committees
that would be interested. 
Anyone interested? Other venues?
 

-----Original Message-----
From: postman at gard.com [mailto:postman at gard.com] On Behalf Of J.K. Nayak
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 9:23 PM
To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
Cc: BLDG-SIM at gard.com; Sabu Francis
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] 3D Modeling + Energy Analysis

I may point out that we have started some work at IIT Bombay in
association with architects for combining building design and
simulation. The architect does not have to know the details of a
simulation. We have integrated the design and simulation process. The
first part of the project has been completed. It is called TADSIM:Tools
for Architectural Design and SIMluation. A part of the result was
presented in SOLAR 2002 (Reno, Nevada, USA) in June 2002.

Thanks.

J.K. Nayak

----------------------------------------------------------
Dr. J.K. Nayak						
Professor, Energy Systems Engineering
Dept. of Mech. Engg., IIT-Bombay,
Powai, Mumbai 400 076,INDIA.
Tel: +91-22-25722545 ext. 7881 (O)
     +91-22-25767881 (O)
     +91-22-25704166 (R)	
Fax: +91-22-25723480
     +91-22-25726875
Email: jknayak at me.iitb.ac.in
-----------------------------------------------------------



On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Monjur M Mourshed wrote:

> Mike
>  
> I agree with your point that energy conservation should begin with
> Architects but I have reservation about how to implement it, given the
> current circumstances. Energy simulation is a complex task oriented
> process. It needs a lot of parameters to be specified to kick off and
> that might not be available when a designer/ Architect starts the
> design. 
>  
> Another point to note is the lack of integrated UI (User Interface) -
be
> it graphical or textual. Most of the researches in Energy Simulation /
> Conservation are aimed at developing stand-alone utility or piece of
> software to do certain job. In my opinion, the emphasis should be
placed
> on the integration with the design process and final outcome or
product.
> For example, I want to kick off Energy Simulation module from within
the
> CAD software I am working with, without specifying further parameters
> and I want to check for energy consumption after every change I made
to
> the layout or component. I don't want to open a different window or
> software and spend a week to define and run the simulation. You might
as
> well say IFC or STEP is there to help. To be honest these
specifications
> seem just prototypes to me, I have reservations about them being used
in
> real life situations - not in next 3/5 years at least.
>  
> It is wisely said; know your target audience before you even think to
> code your software. Knowingly or unknowingly, Most of the software/
> Interfaces are targeted towards HVAC Engineers, not architects.
There's
> a fundamental difference in the think/ work process of an architect
with
> Engineers. I don't think architects are too comfortable with what's
> available out there, commercially or research wise. This is the only
> reason for not using them in profession. Nobody has problems with
> learning something new, if it increases the quality of the product or
> increases efficiency of the process.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Monjur Mourshed
> IRUSE, Civil Engineering, UCC. Ireland
> http://www.ecaad.com/monjur
> http://www.ucc.ie/iruse/monjur
>  
>  
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: postman at gard.com [mailto:postman at gard.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> Roberts
> Sent: 12 February 2003 16:06
> To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
> X-Scanned: By Symantec Carrier Scan Server
> Subject: [BLDG-SIM] 3D Modeling + Energy Analysis
>  
> Warren,
>  
> I'm sure you have seen the discussion of eQUEST over the last few
days.
> I consider it and it's DOE-2.2 calculation engine the best available
for
> serious production energy simulation. My business is energy simulation
> for other engineers and architects, and we do probably 90 percent of
our
> work with eQUEST/DOE-2.2.  It can even do rudimentary modeling, though
> probably not what you would want to present to a client.  eQUEST's
> wizard makes preliminary analysis very quick and easy.  You can then
> take that model as far as you want with the Detailed Edit Mode.
>  
> On the other hand, any good simulation program will have a significant
> learning curve.  I believe eQUEST to have the best user interface
> available, but the program is not trivial to learn and use properly.
I
> have worked with Marlin Addison on presenting two day eQUEST training
> seminars to engineers and architects.  Normally, after a seminar,
about
> 10 percent of the participants will contact me with questions,
> indicating to me that they are actually using the program.  While I
have
> felt for a long time that energy conservation should start with the
> architect, few of the seminar participants are architects and I cannot
> remember a single architect with a follow up question.
>  
> I would highly recommend that whatever program makes your short list,
> you attend a training seminar to determine if it is practical for you
to
> actually use the program.  I would be happy to talk or email further
> about this subject.
>  
> Mike Roberts
> 816-942-8121
> -----Original Message-----
> From: postman at gard.com [mailto:postman at gard.com]On Behalf Of Warren A.
> Campbell
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 7:55 AM
> To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
> X-Scanned: By Symantec Carrier Scan Server
> Subject: [BLDG-SIM] 3D Modeling + Energy Analysis
> Hello All:
>  
> I have a request. I am an architect in North Carolina, and it is my
job
> to choose the next generation of software that my office will use in
the
> production of construction documents. On the one hand, I am
considering
> a 3D modeling program, such as Revit, in order to take advantage of
both
> the parametric and rendering capabilities. However, I also have a
strong
> interest in promoting high performance design. Therefore, I was hoping
> there exists a program that can fluidly incorporate energy analysis
into
> the modeling software. Maybe there is even something on the horizon.
>  
> Any suggestions?
>  
> Warren A. Campbell, RA
> Millennium 3 Design Group
> 1313 North Tryon Street
> Charlotte, NC 28206
> (704) 333-1965.Ext 22 phone
> (704) 376-7122 fax
> wcampbell at m3dg.com

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