[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Design Loads and Actual Loads

To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Design Loads and Actual Loads
From: "Michael J. Witte" <mjwitte@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:57:45 -0500
Delivered-to: lawrie.com%linda@xxxxxxxxxx
Delivered-to: mailing list EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In-reply-to: <Pine.SOL.4.44.0306181815200.20307-100000@asteroids.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
List-unsubscribe: <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Mailing-list: list EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; contact EnergyPlus_Support-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Organization: GARD Analytics
Priority: normal
References: <3EF09960.23479.638E5B68@localhost>
Reply-to: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ruchi:

I've looked at this several times and do not know what is going on.  
The zones are not controlling to the correct temperatures and there 
are many max iteration errors.  These indicate some flow rate 
inconsistencies or component order or connection problems.

I'll send your file to someone else to try and look at while I'm gone.

Mike


On 18 Jun 2003, at 18:19, Ruchi Choudhary wrote:

> 
> I am comparing the zone/sys heating and cooling rates output in the
> eso file.
> 
> The sizing parameters are not many....for each zone I am specifying
> the supply temperature, outside airflow per person and design
> humidity. Any clue as to what could be the problem??
> 
> ruchi.
> 
> 
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Michael J. Witte wrote:
> 
> > Ruchi:
> >
> > No, this is not typical.  This means that something is inconsistent
> > between your sizing parameters and your system description.  What
> > exact variable are you comparing against the .zsz values?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > On 18 Jun 2003, at 14:50, Ruchi Choudhary wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Mike,
> > >
> > > Is it typical for the peak design loads reported in the zone
> > > sizing file to not match the peak from the heating and cooling
> > > rates? I have the same day and design day schedules and have not
> > > specified any sizing parameter....In the case I am simulating, the
> > > peak design loads in the *.zsz file are more than the heating and
> > > cooling rates for all zones by a factor ranging from 1.2 to 6.0!
> > >
> > > ruchi.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 13 May 2003, Michael J. Witte wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ruchi:
> > > >
> > > > To check the actual loads against the design loads, compare your
> > > > peak zone/sys sensible heating and cooling rates from the
> > > > simulation period against the reported peak heating and cooling
> > > > loads in the eio sizing report.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > On 9 May 2003, at 18:10, Ruchi Choudhary wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks very much Mike. Following up on your explaination: I
> > > > > specified the flow/zone method in the zone sizing object and
> > > > > noted resulting the peak heating and cooling capacity of the
> > > > > system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then, I increased the interior
> > > > > space gains in the zone without changing the specified amount
> > > > > of air/zone. I expected the capacity of the system to remain
> > > > > the same because now it should use the flow/zone to size the
> > > > > system capacity. However the peak system capacity also
> > > > > changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > So it seems to me that the output in *ssz is based on loads
> > > > > obtained from the design day simulation no matter what the
> > > > > airflow method specification is. However both from what you
> > > > > say and the text in the "Design Objects" section, it should
> > > > > not? Or is it that the flow/zone is used for sizing
> > > > > components, but the system capacity will always be sized on
> > > > > the basis of the design day simulation? Following are my
> > > > > interpretations of the functional dependencies:
> > > > >
> > > > > System Capacity=f(sys. supply temperature, total massflow
> > > > > rate, total outside air)
> > > > >
> > > > > total mass flow rate=f(sum of mass flow rates of all zones)
> > > > >
> > > > > mass flow rate of a zone = f(zone supply temp., design load)
> > > > >
> > > > > Are any of this "mis"-interpretations? Also, it would be great
> > > > > if you could tell me which of these get affected if I choose
> > > > > the flow/zone method for specifying airflow.
> > > > >
> > > > > also, when I specify the air/zone, the *.eio file outputs both
> > > > > the air/zone calculated on the basis of design day simulation
> > > > > as well as the value computed on the basis of the design day
> > > > > simulation...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I also have another question :/
> > > > >
> > > > > How can I make sure that the actual energy use in the zone is
> > > > > close enough to the design load (so the design load is not
> > > > > grossly over-estimated)? Should I check the values of the
> > > > > heating/cooling rate against the design load??
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks very much for your help!
> > > > > ruchi.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 9 May 2003, Michael J. Witte wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you specify a volumetric airflow rate in the zone sizing
> > > > > > object, then this overrides the design load calculation for
> > > > > > that zone.  The specified rate is then used when sizing the
> > > > > > central air handling components (fan, coil, etc.)  This does
> > > > > > not override the specified supply air temperature for
> > > > > > sizing. Supply air volumes are sized to meet the sensible
> > > > > > load in the zone based on the design day simulations.  For
> > > > > > hourly details of these loads, see the *.zsz and *.ssz
> > > > > > output files.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 7 May 2003, at 14:32, Ruchi Choudhary wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dear All,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the Zone Sizing Object there are two fields that allow
> > > > > > > the user to either specify the volumetric airflow rate, or
> > > > > > > compute it on the basis of the design day simulation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My understanding is that the mass flow rates computed by
> > > > > > > the zone sizing object are used in conjunction with the
> > > > > > > system supply temperature and outside air flow rate to
> > > > > > > compute the system capacity.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So if I specify the volumetric airflow rate for a zone,
> > > > > > > will it be used to determine the system capacity rather
> > > > > > > than the output from design day simulation? By doing so, I
> > > > > > > am implicitly also over-riding the design load computed by
> > > > > > > the zone-sizing object and zone supply air temperature
> > > > > > > specification?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, the *.eio file lists the design volumetric air flow
> > > > > > > rates for each zone. I am assuming these are computed on
> > > > > > > the basis of the design load and zone-sizing specs.
> > > > > > > (supply temperature and humidity)?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ruchi.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > > > > ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500
> > > > > > > titles. No Late Fees & Free Shipping. Try Netflix for
> > > > > > > FREE!
> > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/YoVfrB/XP.FAA/uetFAA/dkFolB/TM
> > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > ---- ---- ---~ ->
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > > > > > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The group web site is:
> > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to
> > > > > > > the appropriate folder in the Files are of the Support Web
> > > > > > > Site.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ========================================================
> > > > > > EnergyPlus Testing and Support EnergyPlus-Support@xxxxxxxx
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > > > > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The group web site is:
> > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the
> > > > > > appropriate folder in the Files are of the Support Web Site.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > > ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500
> > > > > titles. Free Shipping & No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE!
> > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/BVVfoB/hP.FAA/uetFAA/dkFolB/TM
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > ---- ---~ ->
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >
> > > > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > > > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > > > >
> > > > > The group web site is:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > > > >
> > > > > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the
> > > > > appropriate folder in the Files are of the Support Web Site.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ========================================================
> > > > EnergyPlus Testing and Support
> > > > EnergyPlus-Support@xxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > > >
> > > > The group web site is:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > > >
> > > > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the
> > > > appropriate folder in the Files are of the Support Web Site.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ---------------------~--> Looking for the latest Free IT White
> > > Papers? Visit SearchMobileComputing.com to access over 500 white
> > > papers. Get instant access at SearchMobileComputing.com Today
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/ZyjvfD/PLNGAA/uitMAA/dkFolB/TM
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---~ ->
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > >
> > > The group web site is:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > >
> > > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the
> > > appropriate folder in the Files are of the Support Web Site.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ========================================================
> > EnergyPlus Testing and Support
> > EnergyPlus-Support@xxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > http://www.energyplus.gov
> >
> > The group web site is:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> >
> > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the
> > appropriate folder in the Files are of the Support Web Site.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~--> Looking for the latest Free IT White Papers?
> Visit SearchSecurity.com to access over 500 white papers. Get instant
> access at SearchSecurity.com Today
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/ayjvfD/QLNGAA/uitMAA/dkFolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
> ->
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> http://www.energyplus.gov
> 
> The group web site is:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> 
> Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the
> appropriate folder in the Files are of the Support Web Site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/sOykFB/k9VGAA/ySSFAA/dkFolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov

The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/

Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the appropriate folder in the Files are of the Support Web Site.




 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
References:
- Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Design Loads and Actual Loads
  - From: Michael J. Witte
- Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Design Loads and Actual Loads
  - From: Ruchi Choudhary
Prev by Date: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] RE: �MTF: output variable meaning & few more doubts.
Next by Date: [EnergyPlus_Support] Fancoil total cooling power rate & total water cooling coil power rate
Previous by thread: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Design Loads and Actual Loads
Next by thread: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Cooling with Purchased Air
Index(es):
- Date
- Thread