[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] using Ground Calculation

See below for responses from our ground heat transfer expert concerning 
basement modeling.  Sorry for the delayed response.


> ------- Forwarded message follows -------
> To:             	<EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> From:           	"Ian Doebber" <idoebber@xxxxxx>
> Date sent:      	Thu, 13 May 2004 15:06:37 -0400
> Subject:        	[EnergyPlus_Support] using Ground Calculation Program 
> for Basements
> Send reply to:  	EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]
> I am using the Auxiliary Ground Temperature program to calculate the outside
> face temperatures of my walls and floor of the basement for my house.  I
> understand that this program was meant for slab on grade but saw that I
> could use the core temps for my basement floor and perimeter temps for my
> basement walls.  I know that this will be a lot better then using the ground
> temperatures in the weather file but I am curious about the applicability of
> this program to modeling basement heat transfer. 

Just for your information, a basement ground heat transfer program is 
presently being readied for inclusion with EnergyPlus.  This will use 
the same "dividing plane" concept, but will enable the users to have 
temperatures that apply to basement walls and floors.  This will not 
make the summer 2004 release, but should make the one after that.

> I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations on how to specify certain
> inputs into this program to manipulate it more for an unconditioned
> basement. 
> 1.  For example, instead of entering my setpoints for my conditioned zones
> as the monthly averages, I use the monthly averaged temperatures of my
> unconditioned basement from a previous EnergyPlus run.  As a result, this
> significantly decreasing the calculated monthly ground temperatures. 

The first question is: How did you model the unconditioned basements?  
The results you get would be heavily influenced by the assumptions 
made.  For example, you should probably use an interzone partition for 
the ceiling/floor above the basement to include the gains from above.  
Include other incidental gains as well. In addition, I would suggest 
using the core slab ground temperature for the floor, and making a run 
with insulated walls. From those results see what monthly average 
unconditioned basement temperature results.  Then, with those, try 
using the perimeter slab temperatures on the basement walls and see 
what the effect is.
> 2. I was wondering about using the daily sine wave variation amplitude since
> my basement zone experiences larger daily fluctuations then my conditioned
> zones. 

My experience has been that the daily variations get damped out so they 
have little effect on the results.

> 3.  Should I specify my slab and soil material properties differently then
> those recommended for the slab on grade. 

If you can come up with some information that is more local, definitely 
use it.  One problem always is that basement excavations are filled 
with material, like sand, that is nothing like the earth in the 

> 4. How should I specify my insulation configuration (vertical or under the
> slab). 

My suggestion would be under the slab.

> 5. How thick should I specify my slab.

It probably won't have a huge effect in this case, but 4 inches or 
100mm is common.

> Thanks
> Ian

Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
EnergyPlus Testing and Support      

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!

The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:

The group web site is:

Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the appropriate folder in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: