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RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop

To: <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop
From: "Miguel Angel Pascual Buisan" <mapascual@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:25:14 +0100
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As far as I remember, the actual plant connection component cannot handle a
secondary flow rate bigger that it is bigger than the primary. Will the new
component solve this?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Miguel Ángel Pascual

  _____  

De: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] En nombre de Michael J. Witte
Enviado el: martes, 07 de marzo de 2006 16:39
Para: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Asunto: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop

 

The April release will also include a new controlled plant connection
component 
which will allow a secondary loop to be controlled to a different
temperature 
than the primary loop.

Mike


On 7 Mar 2006 at 8:09, Padhmanabhan, Sankar wrote:

> Hi Miguel:
>  
> The loop pump running continuously will be taken care in the April
release. 
> Also while specifying operation schemes, specify lower limit of load as a
> value slightly above 0 (like 0.001), just to make sure it wont turn on any
> pump. however just this change will not solve the issue currently. In the
> April release this must be taken care of.
>  
> I believe the April release will have a new tempering valve object which
will
> function  as you mentioned
>  
> Currently you can simulate the Primary-secondary system using Plant
connetion
> component. As Mike mentioned in a reply to another message, theorotically
you
> canconnec t any number of loops but more that one loop is not  tested.
>  
> Thanks
> Sankar
> S.K.Padhmanabhan
> Research Associate
> Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering
> Oklahoma State University,
> Stillwater, OK - 74075
> Ph: (405)744-4380
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Miguel Angel Pascual
> Buisan
> Sent: Tue 3/7/2006 2:42 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much for your help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have followed your advice and now the model seems to be almost fine. We
> have noticed again that the second loop pump is running continuously,
under
> no load on the "source side heat transfer" of the heatpump. I think that
> this is the same issue I told you a few weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> I also think that the water heater is a smart object, but it would be
better
> if it could include a mixing valve in the output of the use side. This
will
> be very helpful for storing DHW at higher temperature than is served to
the
> hot water taps.
> 
> 
> 
> It will be also very useful for simulating a primary system with various
> secondary loops with different flow rates and temperatures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Miguel Ángel Pascual
> 
> Director Técnico
> 
> 
> 
> MIYABI       espacios urbanos bioclimáticos
> 
> Leyre 11bis, 1ºC 31002 Pamplona
> 
> Tel: 948 20 36 44  Fax: 948 20 78 60
> 
> Email:  <mailto:mapascual@xxxxxxxxx> mapascual@xxxxxxxxx
> 
> Web:  <http://www.miyabi.es/> www.miyabi.es
> 
>   _____ 
> 
> De: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] En nombre de Padhmanabhan,
> Sankar
> Enviado el: lunes, 06 de marzo de 2006 19:40
> Para: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Asunto: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Miguel:
> As you noted you cannot put a Water Heater:Mixed object in a condenser
loop.
> In EnergyPlus the components in condenser loop are generally Environmental
> heat exchangers. However you can accomplish your objective by setting up
two
> plant loops as follows:
> 
> Plant Loop 1: Consists of Water-water HP in the supply side similar to the
> way you would set up for a ground served system.
> Plant Loop 2: In the demand side of the loop place the water-water HP and
> the supply side must contain the water heater mixed. Make sure the nodes
are
> connected correctly. At this point note that the water heater mixed object
> has 2 sets of inlet/outlet nodes viz. source side inlet and use side
inlet.
> In the above said configuration, the inlet nodes as seen from Plant Loop 2
> to water heater must be the source side inlet. The use side nodes must be
> the inlet/outlet nodes of the domestic hot water system you will specify.
> 
> Little while ago we did some testing on the water heater mixed object to
see
> how setting up two plant loops connected to each other work and from the
> testing we noticed that the water heater mixed object is smart to take
care
> of such a situation. The above said method should work and we would like
to
> hear what your experiences are.
> 
> Thanks
> Sankar
> 
> S.K.Padhmanabhan
> Research Associate
> Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering
> Oklahoma State University,
> Stillwater, OK - 74075
> Ph: (405)744-4380
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Miguel Angel Pascual
> Buisan
> Sent: Mon 3/6/2006 11:37 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> We are working with a water to water heatpump condensed by vertical ground
> heat exchanger. We want to estimate how much heat could be recover for
> Domestic Hot Water use, so we replaced the ground exchanger with  a "Water
> heater:mixed" in the condensing loop. It did not work because it is not
> possible to have this type of equipment in a condensing loop. Any idea
about
> how can we fix it?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Miguel Ángel Pascual
> 
> Director Técnico
> 
> 
> 
> MIYABI       espacios urbanos bioclimáticos
> 
> Leyre 11bis, 1ºC 31002 Pamplona
> 
> Tel: 948 20 36 44  Fax: 948 20 78 60
> 
> Email: mapascual@xxxxxxxxx
> 
> Web: www.miyabi.es <http://www.miyabi.es/>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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