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RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop

To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop
From: "Michael J. Witte" <mjwitte@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 10:26:25 -0600
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Yes.  The new component will allow any combination of primary and secondary 
flow rates.

On 7 Mar 2006 at 17:25, Miguel Angel Pascual Buisan wrote:

> As far as I remember, the actual plant connection component cannot handle a
> secondary flow rate bigger that it is bigger than the primary. Will the new
> component solve this?
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
>  
> 
> Miguel Ángel Pascual
> 
>   _____  
> 
> De: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] En nombre de Michael J. Witte
> Enviado el: martes, 07 de marzo de 2006 16:39
> Para: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Asunto: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop
> 
>  
> 
> The April release will also include a new controlled plant connection
> component 
> which will allow a secondary loop to be controlled to a different
> temperature 
> than the primary loop.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> On 7 Mar 2006 at 8:09, Padhmanabhan, Sankar wrote:
> 
> > Hi Miguel:
> >  
> > The loop pump running continuously will be taken care in the April
> release. 
> > Also while specifying operation schemes, specify lower limit of load as a
> > value slightly above 0 (like 0.001), just to make sure it wont turn on any
> > pump. however just this change will not solve the issue currently. In the
> > April release this must be taken care of.
> >  
> > I believe the April release will have a new tempering valve object which
> will
> > function  as you mentioned
> >  
> > Currently you can simulate the Primary-secondary system using Plant
> connetion
> > component. As Mike mentioned in a reply to another message, theorotically
> you
> > canconnec t any number of loops but more that one loop is not  tested.
> >  
> > Thanks
> > Sankar
> > S.K.Padhmanabhan
> > Research Associate
> > Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering
> > Oklahoma State University,
> > Stillwater, OK - 74075
> > Ph: (405)744-4380
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > 
> > From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Miguel Angel Pascual
> > Buisan
> > Sent: Tue 3/7/2006 2:42 AM
> > To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Thank you very much for your help.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > We have followed your advice and now the model seems to be almost fine. We
> > have noticed again that the second loop pump is running continuously,
> under
> > no load on the "source side heat transfer" of the heatpump. I think that
> > this is the same issue I told you a few weeks ago.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I also think that the water heater is a smart object, but it would be
> better
> > if it could include a mixing valve in the output of the use side. This
> will
> > be very helpful for storing DHW at higher temperature than is served to
> the
> > hot water taps.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > It will be also very useful for simulating a primary system with various
> > secondary loops with different flow rates and temperatures.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Miguel Ángel Pascual
> > 
> > Director Técnico
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > MIYABI       espacios urbanos bioclimáticos
> > 
> > Leyre 11bis, 1ºC 31002 Pamplona
> > 
> > Tel: 948 20 36 44  Fax: 948 20 78 60
> > 
> > Email:  <mailto:mapascual@xxxxxxxxx> mapascual@xxxxxxxxx
> > 
> > Web:  <http://www.miyabi.es/> www.miyabi.es
> > 
> >   _____ 
> > 
> > De: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] En nombre de Padhmanabhan,
> > Sankar
> > Enviado el: lunes, 06 de marzo de 2006 19:40
> > Para: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Asunto: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Miguel:
> > As you noted you cannot put a Water Heater:Mixed object in a condenser
> loop.
> > In EnergyPlus the components in condenser loop are generally Environmental
> > heat exchangers. However you can accomplish your objective by setting up
> two
> > plant loops as follows:
> > 
> > Plant Loop 1: Consists of Water-water HP in the supply side similar to the
> > way you would set up for a ground served system.
> > Plant Loop 2: In the demand side of the loop place the water-water HP and
> > the supply side must contain the water heater mixed. Make sure the nodes
> are
> > connected correctly. At this point note that the water heater mixed object
> > has 2 sets of inlet/outlet nodes viz. source side inlet and use side
> inlet.
> > In the above said configuration, the inlet nodes as seen from Plant Loop 2
> > to water heater must be the source side inlet. The use side nodes must be
> > the inlet/outlet nodes of the domestic hot water system you will specify.
> > 
> > Little while ago we did some testing on the water heater mixed object to
> see
> > how setting up two plant loops connected to each other work and from the
> > testing we noticed that the water heater mixed object is smart to take
> care
> > of such a situation. The above said method should work and we would like
> to
> > hear what your experiences are.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Sankar
> > 
> > S.K.Padhmanabhan
> > Research Associate
> > Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering
> > Oklahoma State University,
> > Stillwater, OK - 74075
> > Ph: (405)744-4380
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > 
> > From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Miguel Angel Pascual
> > Buisan
> > Sent: Mon 3/6/2006 11:37 AM
> > To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > We are working with a water to water heatpump condensed by vertical ground
> > heat exchanger. We want to estimate how much heat could be recover for
> > Domestic Hot Water use, so we replaced the ground exchanger with  a "Water
> > heater:mixed" in the condensing loop. It did not work because it is not
> > possible to have this type of equipment in a condensing loop. Any idea
> about
> > how can we fix it?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks in advance.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Miguel Ángel Pascual
> > 
> > Director Técnico
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > MIYABI       espacios urbanos bioclimáticos
> > 
> > Leyre 11bis, 1ºC 31002 Pamplona
> > 
> > Tel: 948 20 36 44  Fax: 948 20 78 60
> > 
> > Email: mapascual@xxxxxxxxx
> > 
> > Web: www.miyabi.es <http://www.miyabi.es/>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > 
> > The group web site is:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > 
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> > 
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> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
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> > 
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> e+program&w2=Cad+software+program&w3=Wedding+program+software&w4=Backup+soft
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> ware+program&w5=Medical+software+program&w6=Anti+virus+software+program&c=6&
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> re+program&w5=Medical+software+program&w6=Anti+virus+software+program&c=6&s=
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> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Wedding+program+software&w1=Email+softw
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> ftware+program&w5=Medical+software+program&w6=Anti+virus+software+program&c=
> > 6&s=176&.sig=c3c1sWYfiWGzKp7GnUerLg>  program software
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> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Backup+software+program&w1=Email+softwa
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> >
> tware+program&w5=Medical+software+program&w6=Anti+virus+software+program&c=6
> > &s=176&.sig=J10TTRJ42b1D5Lkoj0m6lw>  software program
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> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Medical+software+program&w1=Email+softw
> > &k=Medical+software+program&w1=Email+softw
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> ftware+program&w5=Medical+software+program&w6=Anti+virus+software+program&c=
> > 6&s=176&.sig=3tzE1foqgmqgLFq3H5bsSg>  software program
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> > 
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> > 
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> > 
> > 
> >   _____ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
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> > 
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> the
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> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > 
> > The group web site is:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > 
> > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the appropriate
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> > EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable.  Open EPlusMainMenu.idf and press
> the
> > "search" button.
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> http://www.energyplus.gov
> 
> The group web site is:
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> 6&s=176&.sig=lXxQ0H0dD-m4yg8X8FLxjg>  software program 
> 
> Cad
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Cad+software+program&w1=Medical+softwar
> e+program&w2=Cad+software+program&w3=Backup+software+program&w4=Wedding+prog
> ram+software&w5=Email+software+program&w6=Anti+virus+software+program&c=6&s=
> 176&.sig=_cTZKfWBY_GiRGXgre7yOg>  software program 
> 
> Backup
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Backup+software+program&w1=Medical+soft
> ware+program&w2=Cad+software+program&w3=Backup+software+program&w4=Wedding+p
> rogram+software&w5=Email+software+program&w6=Anti+virus+software+program&c=6
> &s=176&.sig=Ol7c7jtsAqkNBDUnxl3WuA>  software program 
> 
> 
> Wedding
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Wedding+program+software&w1=Medical+sof
> tware+program&w2=Cad+software+program&w3=Backup+software+program&w4=Wedding+
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> 
> Email
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Email+software+program&w1=Medical+softw
> are+program&w2=Cad+software+program&w3=Backup+software+program&w4=Wedding+pr
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> 
> Anti
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> 
>  
> 
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> 
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>  
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>   _____  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
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> 
> The group web site is:
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> 
> Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the appropriate folder
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> EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable.  Open EPlusMainMenu.idf and press the
> "search" button.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 






The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
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References:
- RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop
  - From: Michael J. Witte
- RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Water heater + condensing loop
  - From: Miguel Angel Pascual Buisan

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