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Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Primary-Secondary System zero flow issue

To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Primary-Secondary System zero flow issue
From: "Michael J. Witte" <mjwitte@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 11:55:59 -0500
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This configuration should be supported in this version.  Please upload your 
input file to the yahoo group files area or send as a zipped attachment to 
energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx

Mike


On 3 Sep 2007 at 15:08, fernandowestphal wrote:

> Hi, Mike.
> 
> I've tried the COMMON PIPE option to simulate a primary-secondary 
> system, but now I got this message:
> 
> ** Severe  ** Current version does not support Loop pumps and branch 
> pumps together
> **   ~~~   ** Occurs in loop CHILLED WATER LOOP
> 
> I am trying to modelate a primary-secondary loop system, as specified 
> by ASHRAE Std 90.1 AppG - system 8, with branch pumps on supply side 
> (one pump for each chiller; with 3 chillers) and a loop pump in the 
> demand side (a variable flow pump for the cooling coils - secondary 
> loop). 
> 
> According to this severe error message I suppose that the current 
> version of E+ does not support such a configuration. 
> Am I right, or I am missing something?
> Any suggestion to modelate such a structure?
> 
> Best regards,
> Fernando Westphal
> 
> 
> --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Michael J. Witte" 
> <mjwitte@...> wrote:
> >
> > EnergyPlus 2.0.0.025 can autosize a primary-secondary system when 
> using the 
> > COMMON PIPE option with a single PLANT LOOP object.  See example 
> file 
> > CommonPipe_Pri-Sec.idf
> > 
> > 5zoneVAV-Pri-SecLoop.idf still uses the older CONNECTION 
> > COMPONENT:PLANTLOOP:CONTROLLED approach which uses two complete 
> PLANT LOOP 
> > structures to accomplish primary-secondary.  When using that 
> approach, 
> > autosizing does not work for the primary loop.
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > 
> > On 13 Aug 2007 at 18:25, fernandowestphal wrote:
> > 
> > > Dear All,
> > > 
> > > Any news about this subject?
> > > Is the actual version of E+ (2.0.0.025) doing the autosize for 
> the 
> > > primary side of primary-secondary systems?
> > > 
> > > I've tried to do it in the example file "5zoneVAV-Pri-
> SecLoop.idf" 
> > > and I got chiller with zero capacity and zero flows in the 
> primary 
> > > loop...
> > > 
> > > Thanks!
> > > Fernando Simon Westphal
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Michael J. Witte" 
> > > <mjwitte@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Autosizing does not currently work for the primary loop in a 
> > > primary-secondary 
> > > > system.  In the next release (April 2007), primary-secondary 
> > > systems will be 
> > > > able to be modeled using a single PLANT LOOP with no connection 
> > > component.  
> > > > Autosizing will then flow through to the primary side.  Until 
> then, 
> > > you must 
> > > > specify the primary equipment capacities and flow rates.
> > > > 
> > > > Mike
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On 16 Jan 2007 at 3:19, miaoworld wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Greetings,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I have a primary and secondary chilled water system, and I am 
> > > keeping
> > > > > having zero flow.  I have specified the primary pump 
> consumption 
> > > and
> > > > > flow rate for the primary chilled water loop, but the primary 
> > > loop and
> > > > > condenser loop (Autosized) is zero flow.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Any suggestions will be appreciated.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Miao(Eric)
> > > > > 
> > > > >    ************* Beginning System Sizing Calculations
> > > > >    ** Warning ** SizeCondDemandSide: Calculated Plant Sizing 
> > > Design
> > > > > Volume Flow Rate=[0.00] is too small. Set to 0.0
> > > > >    **   ~~~   ** ..occurs for Condenser Loop=CHILLED WATER 
> LOOP
> > > > > CONDENSER WATER LOOP
> > > > >    ** Warning ** SizeCondSupplySide: Calculated Plant Sizing 
> > > Design
> > > > > Volume Flow Rate=[0.00] is too small. Set to 0.0
> > > > >    **   ~~~   ** ..occurs for Condenser Loop=CHILLED WATER 
> LOOP
> > > > > CONDENSER WATER LOOP
> > > > >    ** Warning ** SizePump: Calculated Pump Nominal Volume Flow
> > > > > Rate=[0.00] is too small. Set to 0.0
> > > > >    **   ~~~   ** ..occurs for Pump=CHILLED WATER LOOP CNDW 
> SUPPLY 
> > > PUMP
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >   ******Component sizing
> > > > > 
> > > > >  Component Sizing, CHILLER:ELECTRIC:EIR, CHILLER, Reference 
> > > Evaporator
> > > > > Volumetric Water Flow Rate [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, CHILLER:ELECTRIC:EIR, CHILLER, Reference 
> > > Capacity
> > > > > [W],   0.0000    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, CHILLER:ELECTRIC:EIR, CHILLER, Reference 
> > > Condenser
> > > > > Volumetric Water Flow Rate [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, PUMP:CONSTANT SPEED, HOT WATER LOOP HW 
> SUPPLY 
> > > PUMP,
> > > > > Rated Volumetric Flow Rate [m3/s],  0.55510E-01
> > > > >  Component Sizing, PUMP:CONSTANT SPEED, HOT WATER LOOP HW 
> SUPPLY 
> > > PUMP,
> > > > > Rated Power Consumption [W],   14182.    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, PUMP:VARIABLE SPEED, CHILLED WATER LOOP 
> CHW SEC
> > > > > SUPPLY PUMP, Rated Power Consumption [W],   158.35    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, CONDENSER LOOP, CHILLED WATER LOOP 
> CONDENSER 
> > > WATER
> > > > > LOOP, Volume of the condenser loop [m3],   0.0000    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, CONDENSER LOOP, CHILLED WATER LOOP 
> CONDENSER 
> > > WATER
> > > > > LOOP, Maximum Loop Volumetric Flow Rate [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, COOLING TOWER:SINGLE SPEED, MAIN TOWER, 
> > > Autosized
> > > > > design water flow rate [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, COOLING TOWER:SINGLE SPEED, MAIN TOWER, 
> Fan 
> > > power
> > > > > at design air flow rate [W],   0.0000    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, COOLING TOWER:SINGLE SPEED, MAIN TOWER, 
> Design 
> > > air
> > > > > flow rate [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, COOLING TOWER:SINGLE SPEED, MAIN TOWER, 
> > > Autosized
> > > > > tower UA value at the design air flow rate [W/C],   0.0000    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, COOLING TOWER:SINGLE SPEED, MAIN TOWER, 
> Air 
> > > flow
> > > > > rate in free convection regime [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, COOLING TOWER:SINGLE SPEED, MAIN TOWER, 
> Tower 
> > > UA
> > > > > value in free convection regime [W/C],   0.0000    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, PUMP:VARIABLE SPEED, CHILLED WATER LOOP 
> CNDW 
> > > SUPPLY
> > > > > PUMP, Rated Volumetric Flow Rate [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > > >  Component Sizing, PUMP:VARIABLE SPEED, CHILLED WATER LOOP 
> CNDW 
> > > SUPPLY
> > > > > PUMP, Rated Power Consumption [W],   0.0000   
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > > > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > > > > 
> > > > > The group web site is:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > > > > 
> > > > > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the 
> > > appropriate folder in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> > > > > 
> > > > > EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable.  Open 
> EPlusMainMenu.idf 
> > > and press the "search" button.
> > > > >  
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ========================================================
> > > > Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
> > > > EnergyPlus Testing and Support      
> > > > EnergyPlus-Support@
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > > 
> > > The group web site is:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > > 
> > > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the 
> appropriate folder
> > > in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> > > 
> > > EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable.  Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf 
> under the
> > > Documentation link and press the "search" button.
> > > 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > ========================================================
> > Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
> > EnergyPlus Testing and Support      
> > EnergyPlus-Support@...
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> http://www.energyplus.gov
> 
> The group web site is:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> 
> Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the appropriate folder
> in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> 
> EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable.  Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the
> Documentation link and press the "search" button.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


========================================================
Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
EnergyPlus Testing and Support      
EnergyPlus-Support@xxxxxxxx





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References:
- Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Primary-Secondary System zero flow issue
  - From: Michael J. Witte
- [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Primary-Secondary System zero flow issue
  - From: fernandowestphal

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