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[EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Primary-Secondary System zero flow issue



Hi, Mike.

I've tried the COMMON PIPE option to simulate a primary-secondary 
system, but now I got this message:

** Severe  ** Current version does not support Loop pumps and branch 
pumps together
**   ~~~   ** Occurs in loop CHILLED WATER LOOP

I am trying to modelate a primary-secondary loop system, as specified 
by ASHRAE Std 90.1 AppG - system 8, with branch pumps on supply side 
(one pump for each chiller; with 3 chillers) and a loop pump in the 
demand side (a variable flow pump for the cooling coils - secondary 
loop). 

According to this severe error message I suppose that the current 
version of E+ does not support such a configuration. 
Am I right, or I am missing something?
Any suggestion to modelate such a structure?

Best regards,
Fernando Westphal


--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Michael J. Witte" 
<mjwitte@...> wrote:
>
> EnergyPlus 2.0.0.025 can autosize a primary-secondary system when 
using the 
> COMMON PIPE option with a single PLANT LOOP object.  See example 
file 
> CommonPipe_Pri-Sec.idf
> 
> 5zoneVAV-Pri-SecLoop.idf still uses the older CONNECTION 
> COMPONENT:PLANTLOOP:CONTROLLED approach which uses two complete 
PLANT LOOP 
> structures to accomplish primary-secondary.  When using that 
approach, 
> autosizing does not work for the primary loop.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> On 13 Aug 2007 at 18:25, fernandowestphal wrote:
> 
> > Dear All,
> > 
> > Any news about this subject?
> > Is the actual version of E+ (2.0.0.025) doing the autosize for 
the 
> > primary side of primary-secondary systems?
> > 
> > I've tried to do it in the example file "5zoneVAV-Pri-
SecLoop.idf" 
> > and I got chiller with zero capacity and zero flows in the 
primary 
> > loop...
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > Fernando Simon Westphal
> > 
> > 
> > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Michael J. Witte" 
> > <mjwitte@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Autosizing does not currently work for the primary loop in a 
> > primary-secondary 
> > > system.  In the next release (April 2007), primary-secondary 
> > systems will be 
> > > able to be modeled using a single PLANT LOOP with no connection 
> > component.  
> > > Autosizing will then flow through to the primary side.  Until 
then, 
> > you must 
> > > specify the primary equipment capacities and flow rates.
> > > 
> > > Mike
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 16 Jan 2007 at 3:19, miaoworld wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Greetings,
> > > > 
> > > > I have a primary and secondary chilled water system, and I am 
> > keeping
> > > > having zero flow.  I have specified the primary pump 
consumption 
> > and
> > > > flow rate for the primary chilled water loop, but the primary 
> > loop and
> > > > condenser loop (Autosized) is zero flow.
> > > > 
> > > > Any suggestions will be appreciated.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > 
> > > > Miao(Eric)
> > > > 
> > > >    ************* Beginning System Sizing Calculations
> > > >    ** Warning ** SizeCondDemandSide: Calculated Plant Sizing 
> > Design
> > > > Volume Flow Rate=[0.00] is too small. Set to 0.0
> > > >    **   ~~~   ** ..occurs for Condenser Loop=CHILLED WATER 
LOOP
> > > > CONDENSER WATER LOOP
> > > >    ** Warning ** SizeCondSupplySide: Calculated Plant Sizing 
> > Design
> > > > Volume Flow Rate=[0.00] is too small. Set to 0.0
> > > >    **   ~~~   ** ..occurs for Condenser Loop=CHILLED WATER 
LOOP
> > > > CONDENSER WATER LOOP
> > > >    ** Warning ** SizePump: Calculated Pump Nominal Volume Flow
> > > > Rate=[0.00] is too small. Set to 0.0
> > > >    **   ~~~   ** ..occurs for Pump=CHILLED WATER LOOP CNDW 
SUPPLY 
> > PUMP
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   ******Component sizing
> > > > 
> > > >  Component Sizing, CHILLER:ELECTRIC:EIR, CHILLER, Reference 
> > Evaporator
> > > > Volumetric Water Flow Rate [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > >  Component Sizing, CHILLER:ELECTRIC:EIR, CHILLER, Reference 
> > Capacity
> > > > [W],   0.0000    
> > > >  Component Sizing, CHILLER:ELECTRIC:EIR, CHILLER, Reference 
> > Condenser
> > > > Volumetric Water Flow Rate [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > >  Component Sizing, PUMP:CONSTANT SPEED, HOT WATER LOOP HW 
SUPPLY 
> > PUMP,
> > > > Rated Volumetric Flow Rate [m3/s],  0.55510E-01
> > > >  Component Sizing, PUMP:CONSTANT SPEED, HOT WATER LOOP HW 
SUPPLY 
> > PUMP,
> > > > Rated Power Consumption [W],   14182.    
> > > >  Component Sizing, PUMP:VARIABLE SPEED, CHILLED WATER LOOP 
CHW SEC
> > > > SUPPLY PUMP, Rated Power Consumption [W],   158.35    
> > > >  Component Sizing, CONDENSER LOOP, CHILLED WATER LOOP 
CONDENSER 
> > WATER
> > > > LOOP, Volume of the condenser loop [m3],   0.0000    
> > > >  Component Sizing, CONDENSER LOOP, CHILLED WATER LOOP 
CONDENSER 
> > WATER
> > > > LOOP, Maximum Loop Volumetric Flow Rate [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > >  Component Sizing, COOLING TOWER:SINGLE SPEED, MAIN TOWER, 
> > Autosized
> > > > design water flow rate [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > >  Component Sizing, COOLING TOWER:SINGLE SPEED, MAIN TOWER, 
Fan 
> > power
> > > > at design air flow rate [W],   0.0000    
> > > >  Component Sizing, COOLING TOWER:SINGLE SPEED, MAIN TOWER, 
Design 
> > air
> > > > flow rate [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > >  Component Sizing, COOLING TOWER:SINGLE SPEED, MAIN TOWER, 
> > Autosized
> > > > tower UA value at the design air flow rate [W/C],   0.0000    
> > > >  Component Sizing, COOLING TOWER:SINGLE SPEED, MAIN TOWER, 
Air 
> > flow
> > > > rate in free convection regime [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > >  Component Sizing, COOLING TOWER:SINGLE SPEED, MAIN TOWER, 
Tower 
> > UA
> > > > value in free convection regime [W/C],   0.0000    
> > > >  Component Sizing, PUMP:VARIABLE SPEED, CHILLED WATER LOOP 
CNDW 
> > SUPPLY
> > > > PUMP, Rated Volumetric Flow Rate [m3/s],   0.0000    
> > > >  Component Sizing, PUMP:VARIABLE SPEED, CHILLED WATER LOOP 
CNDW 
> > SUPPLY
> > > > PUMP, Rated Power Consumption [W],   0.0000   
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > > > 
> > > > The group web site is:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > > > 
> > > > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the 
> > appropriate folder in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> > > > 
> > > > EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable.  Open 
EPlusMainMenu.idf 
> > and press the "search" button.
> > > >  
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ========================================================
> > > Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
> > > EnergyPlus Testing and Support      
> > > EnergyPlus-Support@
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > 
> > The group web site is:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > 
> > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the 
appropriate folder
> > in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> > 
> > EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable.  Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf 
under the
> > Documentation link and press the "search" button.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ========================================================
> Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
> EnergyPlus Testing and Support      
> EnergyPlus-Support@...
>




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