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[EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Prevalence of Design Builder
Sadly I too am using a similar work flow. Some of the recent changes in Design Builder will make things much easier, but I find Open Studio crashes on me way to often still. I still find it painfull to deal with architectural and other changes. For example Design Builder used to change all the zone names if one cut a zone into two zones. The fact that you now retain your own user defined names makes it far easier. I haven't tried the new HVAC tools. I find that I model in DB until a certain point of no return where I've customized the exported idf to such an extent that I later only use DB to output an idf where I cut and paste bits into my now master idf. I often work with AFN which DB buildes automatically. When the arch changes and I've already customised bit's of a hybrid ventilation system, it's hard to just export new geometery and paste it into the master idf.
I see Dr Crawly has joined bentley. I'm currently doing a lot of 3d hvac modelling using microstaion together with either bently add-on mechanical or Venturis add on TriCAD, and have consequently become familiar with some of the other bently products such as SpacePlaner. The gap is always that the architects model in best case 3d, but can't deliver or won't deliver anything easily convertable into the floors walls roof doors and window needed in eplus. ArchiCAD no longer supports gbXML, AutoCAD owns gbXML but the Architects are not buying and using the BIM addons from Autodesk just to give the poor HVAC designers a gbXML data and more often than not, not the same Architects will work on the project during all its phases and each will use a different software.
The 3D gets modeled over and over again.
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Jackson, Alan" <ajackson@...> wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
>
>
> I agree with a lot of what Jason has said, and surprisingly I used to
> use a very similar workflow because Designbuilder was, at a time, the
> only real interface for easily creating geometry. Unfortunately, as
> Jason said, the systems capability of the program was such that you
> still needed to start from scratch on the HVAC side for a number of
> reasons. Ultimately I couldn't justify to our office to pay for a
> license of Designbuilder just to create geometry when OpenStudio was
> progressing as a free solution.
>
>
>
> Now, I have heard that this latest version of Designbuilder has made
> substantial progress and I plan on testing it before passing judgment on
> its current state. I believe a trial is available on their site.
>
>
>
> I have also been using a trial version of Bentley's AECOSim and I hope
> to provide some feedback to Bentley and this users group on my initial
> findings, but I don't have anything to share at this time because I have
> not used it enough.
>
>
>
> With these products in addition to EPGUI and OpenStudio it really is an
> exciting time for Energyplus end users as competition always sparks
> innovation. Ultimately you should try each in order to determine what
> works best for your project size, scale, budget and office workflow.
> Many like myself are still content, for the moment, using the free
> offerings from the DOE & NREL.
>
>
>
> Alan Jackson, LEED AP
>
> KlingStubbins
>
>
>
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jason
> Kirkpatrick
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:07 PM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Prevalence of Design Builder
>
>
>
>
>
> Matt,
>
> I like to use DesignBuilder to create and zone the model. The new
> version of DB (finally) exports the zone names as you input them in the
> interface.
>
> I then trim out everything that DesignBuilder creates except for the
> geometry and open the model in OpenStudio. OpenStudio will then
> automatically fix any problems with surfaces that DB has exported (like
> upside down surfaces) and then can very simply redefine all of the
> construction assignments in the model to something more descriptive than
> what DB uses (simply the number 1 for floors, 5 for walls etc.)
>
> I then build my HVAC systems from scratch / or by combining code pieces
> that I have already created. For instance, I have a code snippet for a
> VAV AHU with heat recovery that is serving a zone called f1:Office1
> I can extend this to more zones by duplicating any object with
> f1:Office1 and replacing it with f1:Office2 (find and replace functions
> in a good text editor is critical... I recommend notepad++) Once Ive
> gotten a single floor AHU completed, I can duplicate the entire AHU and
> do a find/replace of AHU-1 with AHU-2 and f1: with f2: to duplicate mech
> systems for multiple floors. I then pull in the chilled water, condenser
> water and hot water plants that Ive already created and connect the
> demand branches of my coils to the Branchlist, Connector:Splitter, and
> Connector:Mixer objects in each plant loop
>
> Now suppose you've built a working model and the geometry changes. You
> can modify the geometry in DB (respecting the previous zone naming
> conventions) and re-export. Then trim out all non-geometry objects,
> replace the constructions in OpenStudio and then paste back in your
> previous mechanical system in the text editor. If you've properly
> maintained your zone naming, the mech system and geometry will fit back
> together with a minimum of effort.
>
> Through this method I've been able to create a 70 story building with
> core and perimeter zoning and floor by floor AHU's in a days worth of
> work.
>
> If all of this sounds really confusing, there are two new GUI's coming
> out for EnergyPlus in the next few months / year?. One is a Bentley
> product which will incorporate a 'drag and drop' HVAC interface, and the
> other is the EPGUI. More info regarding the EPGUI can be found here:
>
> http://openrevit.com/2011/03/the-holy-grail-energyplus-gui-with-bim-inte
> gration/
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Matthew Anderson
> <matthew.sverre.anderson@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello Everybody,
>
> As I have gotten more accustomed to E+ I am now curious what the
> prevalence of use of GUI editors for HVAC systems is in E+. Open Studio
> seems like an excellent opensource program that allows people to edit
> building geometry but so editing HVAC systems seems to be very
> cumbersome.
>
> Does anybody have a suggestion of a program they use? What about
> programs they are aware of, but do not necessarily use? I saw that
> DesignBuilder is coming out with v3 which has (what appears to be) a
> very flexible HVAC editor. Is anybody thinking about using this program?
>
> Currently if I want to edit how a building is zoned to compare the
> efficacy of a model or what have you it is a grueling process and I
> would prefer if I could just do this quickly.
>
> I am just really looking to see whats out there before I decide on a
> course of action. E+ is at its core a simulation engine and time = money
> so I am looking for the cheapest way to save time and ensure the
> flexiblity of E+ to model systems.
>
> Thank you,
> Matthew Anderson
>
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