There is no problem with your IDF, except that the DesignDat objects were not included.
The .ddy file is at the EPlus website version of the weather file. The one you have posted in the problem submitals, has the same statistics in the file header, but in MN6 as the file name. Therefore the .stat and .ddy may not have been included.
You should display the variables in timestep to see the details with less averaging of the data values. I have not change that in the two files attached.
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: nachogo27@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:58:11 +0000
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Problem with results of a simulation
__._,_.___
Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx
The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov
The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files.
EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
![]()
__,_._,___
The .ddy file is at the EPlus website version of the weather file. The one you have posted in the problem submitals, has the same statistics in the file header, but in MN6 as the file name. Therefore the .stat and .ddy may not have been included.
You should display the variables in timestep to see the details with less averaging of the data values. I have not change that in the two files attached.
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: nachogo27@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:58:11 +0000
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Problem with results of a simulation
Hi,
I've followed your advices and I think now I know better how to
evaluate my building energy rates.
I have been using the weather file from energy+ home webpage but I
changed it to the file weather file from the yahoo weather folder.I've
calculated the ground temperature with the slab-processor too.
I've deleted all the equipment,schedules to restart again. Now I think
I'm having the right values.
I began with constant thermostat and after that I added a heating and
a cooling temperature schedule.After this simulation I added some
loads(lights,people and equipment).
But there is a strange value, the "ZONE/SYS SENSIBLE HEATING RATE"
maximun is very high again. The energy used during the year is very
low(I think this is normal because is a warm place).Can this high
value disturb my syzing/simulation when i am going to add an actual
HVAC system?
Another question,is it compulsory to add "design days" for sizing a
system or can energy+ size the system running only an anual
simulation?
I will attach my idf file in the "_problem_submittals" group folder,if you can to tell more hints they would be listened.
Thanks again,
Ignacio Gomis
P.S.:Can someone explain me how to download/upload attached files from
the yahoo group posts?I still can't download/upload files.
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, YuanLu Li <yli006@...> wrote:
>
>
> After running your IDF, I found that you have many unusual features. The DesignDay temperature range is zero. The temperature is constant for the whole day. Infiltratin is very high, so that Winter cold air and Summer hot air are added to your load. You have very high internal load in Summer. Therefore high cooling rate. Check the schedule for Winter. Window heat gain and loas are in the order of 5kw each This adds to your heating and cooling load. Ground temperature was not endered and assumed to be 18°C. This is keeping your zone temperature high in Winter. No heating required at night. (higher than 10°C)=========================I have change some of the schedules and designDay data, and report variables to test the simulation. The infiltration is turned off, and the DesignDay data is from the .ddy file. OA minimum fow is also zero. The heating and cooling rate are now accountable. the .csv and .idf are attached. ====================If you are learning to design the building do not use fancy schedules, people, clothings, etc. Make sure that the building is cool in Summer and warm in Winter, and then add a little HVAC to increase comfort. Simulation with different equipment will not improve energy usage.
> Dr. Li P.S. for Richard Are you saying that if the actual type 4 on/off (high/low) setpoint is used for sizing, the maximum available flow rate would be higher, and a temperature change can be met faster. When the peak flow is limited, the fast temperture rise becomes a rounded temperature rise in the simulation, as in most VAV cases.
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: RRaustad@...
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:42:40 -0500
> Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Problem with results of a simulation
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The thermostat temperature schedules should not use setback/setup
> during sizing periods (i.e., SummerDesignDay and WinterDesignDay
> temperature set point should be constant) so that the autosized flow
> rate is not excessively high. Then during the actual simulation,
> when a setback/setup temperature schedule IS used, the peaks during
> "thermostat temperature set up" may not be as high.
>
>
>
> Schedule:Compact,
>
> Htg-SetP-Sch, !- Name
>
> Temperature, !- Schedule Type Limits Name
>
> Through: 12/31, !- Field 1
>
> For: Weekends HoliDay, !- Field 2
>
> Until: 7:00,12.8, !- Field 3
>
> Until: 14:00,21.1, !- Field 5
>
> Until: 24:00,12.8, !- Field 7
>
> For: SummerDesignDay, !- Field 9
>
> Until: 24:00,12.8, !- Field 10
>
> For: WinterDesignDay, !- Field 12
>
> Until: 24:00,21.1, !- Field 13
>
> For: AllOtherDays, !- Field 15
>
> Until: 7:00,12.8, !- Field 16
>
> Until: 19:00,21.1, !- Field 18
>
> Until: 24:00,12.8; !- Field 20
>
>
>
> Schedule:Compact,
>
> Clg-SetP-Sch, !- Name
>
> Temperature, !- Schedule Type Limits Name
>
> Through: 12/31, !- Field 1
>
> For: Weekends HoliDay, !- Field 2
>
> Until: 7:00,40.0, !- Field 3
>
> Until: 14:00,23.9, !- Field 5
>
> Until: 24:00,32.2, !- Field 7
>
> For: SummerDesignDay, !- Field 9
>
> Until: 24:00,23.9, !- Field 10
>
> For: WinterDesignDay, !- Field 12
>
> Until: 24:00,40.0, !- Field 13
>
> For: AllOtherDays, !- Field 15
>
> Until: 7:00,40.0, !- Field 16
>
> Until: 19:00,23.9, !- Field 18
>
> Until: 24:00,40.0; !- Field 20
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/21/2011 4:31 PM, YuanLu Li wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Check your schedules, internal load, infiltration and
> ventilation, if any.
>
>
>
> Send me the IDF. I will have a look at it, if I have
> time.
>
>
>
> Dr. Li
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To:
> EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> From: nachogo27@...
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:35:50 +0000
>
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Problem with results
> of a simulation
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance Dr.Li,
>
> It is a simple simulation without HVAC systems,I
> have only added the Ideal Load
>
> System.
>
> But I have a very high peak load in heating mode
> when the the target temperature
>
> for my ideal system changes from 12.8ºC to 21.1ºC
> at 6:00am. How? by
> schedule?
>
>
>
>
>
> It seems that my Ideal Load System is switched off
> because the zone temperature
>
> is near to 18ºC (the target temperature is
> 12.8ºC,therefore the Ideal System is
>
> off). Real zone
> temperature is never that low. Do you mean the
> outdoor temperature is at 12.8°C
>
>
>
> But at 6:00am the target temperature changes to
> 21.1ºC,the Ideal System
>
> switchs on.This is the moment when I got a very
> high peak(For example,I had a
>
> peak of 80000W at 6:00am and after this peak the
> load is maintained near to
>
> 8000W during only one hour more,after that I dont
> need more heating).
>
> That is normal. You are
> changing everything in the zone from 12.8°C to
> 21°C. After that, you are only maintaining the
> temperature to balance the incremental solar and
> inter load.
>
>
>
> The flow rate which is autosized is very high,I've
> tried to manual size it to 2
>
> m3/s but it didn't work.
> What flow rate are talking about?
>
>
>
>
> I've uploaded the idf file to
> _Problem_Submittals folder,if you can take a look
> it would be great.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ignacio Gomis
>
>
>
> --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
> YuanLu Li yli006@ wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I am not sure what is your "air heating
> rate". As your heating load is high during the
> day, from 6 am, may be you are reporting some roof
> temperature related variables. A 750m2 roof can be
> receiving 750kW of heat from the sun. (Assuming
> 1KW/m2.) The variation of this intensity can be
> found by listing the solar radiation related
> variables in your simulation. If you will post or
> send me the IDF, I will have a look at it. Dr. Li
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Richard A. Raustad
> Senior Research Engineer
> Florida Solar Energy Center
> University of Central Florida
> 1679 Clearlake Road
> Cocoa, FL 32922-5703
> Phone: (321) 638-1454
> Fax: (321) 638-1439 or 1010
> Visit our web site at: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu
>
> UCF - From Promise to Prominence: Celebrating 40 Years
>
I've followed your advices and I think now I know better how to
evaluate my building energy rates.
I have been using the weather file from energy+ home webpage but I
changed it to the file weather file from the yahoo weather folder.I've
calculated the ground temperature with the slab-processor too.
I've deleted all the equipment,schedules to restart again. Now I think
I'm having the right values.
I began with constant thermostat and after that I added a heating and
a cooling temperature schedule.After this simulation I added some
loads(lights,people and equipment).
But there is a strange value, the "ZONE/SYS SENSIBLE HEATING RATE"
maximun is very high again. The energy used during the year is very
low(I think this is normal because is a warm place).Can this high
value disturb my syzing/simulation when i am going to add an actual
HVAC system?
Another question,is it compulsory to add "design days" for sizing a
system or can energy+ size the system running only an anual
simulation?
I will attach my idf file in the "_problem_submittals" group folder,if you can to tell more hints they would be listened.
Thanks again,
Ignacio Gomis
P.S.:Can someone explain me how to download/upload attached files from
the yahoo group posts?I still can't download/upload files.
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, YuanLu Li <yli006@...> wrote:
>
>
> After running your IDF, I found that you have many unusual features. The DesignDay temperature range is zero. The temperature is constant for the whole day. Infiltratin is very high, so that Winter cold air and Summer hot air are added to your load. You have very high internal load in Summer. Therefore high cooling rate. Check the schedule for Winter. Window heat gain and loas are in the order of 5kw each This adds to your heating and cooling load. Ground temperature was not endered and assumed to be 18°C. This is keeping your zone temperature high in Winter. No heating required at night. (higher than 10°C)=========================I have change some of the schedules and designDay data, and report variables to test the simulation. The infiltration is turned off, and the DesignDay data is from the .ddy file. OA minimum fow is also zero. The heating and cooling rate are now accountable. the .csv and .idf are attached. ====================If you are learning to design the building do not use fancy schedules, people, clothings, etc. Make sure that the building is cool in Summer and warm in Winter, and then add a little HVAC to increase comfort. Simulation with different equipment will not improve energy usage.
> Dr. Li P.S. for Richard Are you saying that if the actual type 4 on/off (high/low) setpoint is used for sizing, the maximum available flow rate would be higher, and a temperature change can be met faster. When the peak flow is limited, the fast temperture rise becomes a rounded temperature rise in the simulation, as in most VAV cases.
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: RRaustad@...
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:42:40 -0500
> Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Problem with results of a simulation
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The thermostat temperature schedules should not use setback/setup
> during sizing periods (i.e., SummerDesignDay and WinterDesignDay
> temperature set point should be constant) so that the autosized flow
> rate is not excessively high. Then during the actual simulation,
> when a setback/setup temperature schedule IS used, the peaks during
> "thermostat temperature set up" may not be as high.
>
>
>
> Schedule:Compact,
>
> Htg-SetP-Sch, !- Name
>
> Temperature, !- Schedule Type Limits Name
>
> Through: 12/31, !- Field 1
>
> For: Weekends HoliDay, !- Field 2
>
> Until: 7:00,12.8, !- Field 3
>
> Until: 14:00,21.1, !- Field 5
>
> Until: 24:00,12.8, !- Field 7
>
> For: SummerDesignDay, !- Field 9
>
> Until: 24:00,12.8, !- Field 10
>
> For: WinterDesignDay, !- Field 12
>
> Until: 24:00,21.1, !- Field 13
>
> For: AllOtherDays, !- Field 15
>
> Until: 7:00,12.8, !- Field 16
>
> Until: 19:00,21.1, !- Field 18
>
> Until: 24:00,12.8; !- Field 20
>
>
>
> Schedule:Compact,
>
> Clg-SetP-Sch, !- Name
>
> Temperature, !- Schedule Type Limits Name
>
> Through: 12/31, !- Field 1
>
> For: Weekends HoliDay, !- Field 2
>
> Until: 7:00,40.0, !- Field 3
>
> Until: 14:00,23.9, !- Field 5
>
> Until: 24:00,32.2, !- Field 7
>
> For: SummerDesignDay, !- Field 9
>
> Until: 24:00,23.9, !- Field 10
>
> For: WinterDesignDay, !- Field 12
>
> Until: 24:00,40.0, !- Field 13
>
> For: AllOtherDays, !- Field 15
>
> Until: 7:00,40.0, !- Field 16
>
> Until: 19:00,23.9, !- Field 18
>
> Until: 24:00,40.0; !- Field 20
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/21/2011 4:31 PM, YuanLu Li wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Check your schedules, internal load, infiltration and
> ventilation, if any.
>
>
>
> Send me the IDF. I will have a look at it, if I have
> time.
>
>
>
> Dr. Li
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To:
> EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> From: nachogo27@...
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:35:50 +0000
>
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Problem with results
> of a simulation
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance Dr.Li,
>
> It is a simple simulation without HVAC systems,I
> have only added the Ideal Load
>
> System.
>
> But I have a very high peak load in heating mode
> when the the target temperature
>
> for my ideal system changes from 12.8ºC to 21.1ºC
> at 6:00am. How? by
> schedule?
>
>
>
>
>
> It seems that my Ideal Load System is switched off
> because the zone temperature
>
> is near to 18ºC (the target temperature is
> 12.8ºC,therefore the Ideal System is
>
> off). Real zone
> temperature is never that low. Do you mean the
> outdoor temperature is at 12.8°C
>
>
>
> But at 6:00am the target temperature changes to
> 21.1ºC,the Ideal System
>
> switchs on.This is the moment when I got a very
> high peak(For example,I had a
>
> peak of 80000W at 6:00am and after this peak the
> load is maintained near to
>
> 8000W during only one hour more,after that I dont
> need more heating).
>
> That is normal. You are
> changing everything in the zone from 12.8°C to
> 21°C. After that, you are only maintaining the
> temperature to balance the incremental solar and
> inter load.
>
>
>
> The flow rate which is autosized is very high,I've
> tried to manual size it to 2
>
> m3/s but it didn't work.
> What flow rate are talking about?
>
>
>
>
> I've uploaded the idf file to
> _Problem_Submittals folder,if you can take a look
> it would be great.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ignacio Gomis
>
>
>
> --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
> YuanLu Li yli006@ wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I am not sure what is your "air heating
> rate". As your heating load is high during the
> day, from 6 am, may be you are reporting some roof
> temperature related variables. A 750m2 roof can be
> receiving 750kW of heat from the sun. (Assuming
> 1KW/m2.) The variation of this intensity can be
> found by listing the solar radiation related
> variables in your simulation. If you will post or
> send me the IDF, I will have a look at it. Dr. Li
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Richard A. Raustad
> Senior Research Engineer
> Florida Solar Energy Center
> University of Central Florida
> 1679 Clearlake Road
> Cocoa, FL 32922-5703
> Phone: (321) 638-1454
> Fax: (321) 638-1439 or 1010
> Visit our web site at: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu
>
> UCF - From Promise to Prominence: Celebrating 40 Years
>
__._,_.___
Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx
The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov
The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files.
EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
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