RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff

Run the IDF and see what happens.

Raditor is a zone equipment and is in the air loop or path. The zone thermostat would turn it off.

There is no need to control the fire or heater. The tank temperature range will look after that. Sizing:Plant object default values are not the same as yours.

The temperature at the input of the pump is not defined. If you must have that temperature at 65°C, use the EMS control.

Otherwise, the tank water at 65°C will turn on the heater automatically.   I do not think that your Iran system has a thermostat at the input of the pump to turn on the heater.

Why do you want to turn off the pump when the temperature is greater than 65°C?   Heater turns on, and pump goes off. Does not make sense.

Run the IDF and plot the temperatures on your schematics and see what you have got.

Once you have entered 80 and 15 = 80 - 65 in the sizing:plant, that is all you need. If you want to stop the radiator from rising above 65°C, that is different control. Simply change 80 to 65 and use the default range. As you now have the Fortran source, you can see how the program operates.

Dr. Li

To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: t.t111ir@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:34:20 +0000
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff

As Dr.Li Say i want to use the availabilityManager:HightemperaturTurnoff to turn the heater off at 80°C tank temperature
but not The radiator would be turned off at 20°C, and the water would go through the by-pass path. but there is no control to turn off the radiator , we dont have automatic direct control on radiator .

you know there is building in tehran : at first we designing the plant and we assume the ideal air temperature for zone is 20C then we designin the plant for coldest day at winter , and determine what capacity boiler must be . plant is central heating there is natural gas boiler when thermostat boiler will on boiler works with full capacity ., constant pump and alminum radiator and there is no automatic thermostat on radiator so we have no direct control on zone air temperature .

and also The second thermometer not at the inlet of the tank there is at inlet the pump to control the pump at 65°C .

so now i think with richard and Dr.Li describing i think i can use setpoint temperature for boiler and availability manager for pump

to control inlet temperature of pump and outlet temperature of boiler .

is that right?

and at the end i appologise for my language

thanks

From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff

Hi, Rochard,

Thank you for the clarification of the controls on the air loop.

T.t is making the control of the plant loop very complicated.

He now wanted to use the availabilityManager:HightemperaturTurnoff to turn the heater off at 80°C tank temperature. and has posted part of an IDF. I did not reply to that one as it is still the same scheme of using two sensors and two controls. .

=================
Using his schematic diagram he provided to the group, all he need to do was to move the second thermometer to the Zone. The radiator would be turned off at 20°C, and the water would go through the by-pass path. The tank heater would turn on and off as the temperature and load changes. The second thermometer at the inlet of the tank to control the heater at 65°C could not be entered in the IDF, was his problem.

If he is really learning on how to use HVAC, he should not ignore the charisteristics of real components.

Dr. Li

To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: RRaustad@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:42:10 -0500
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff

The availability manager actually turns off the pump (or fan for air systems). So any equipment on that loop will be off.

On 1/27/2012 11:25 AM, Tooran T wrote:

From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 7:31 PM
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff

thanks Dr.Li ,

i m not good at english so mybye i dont undrestand your word exactly .you say : " If the avilability manager is associated with the heater, it turns off the heater." and
" The size and type of the heater is another matter" what you mean by heater ?is that baseboard heater or water heater?

thank you very much Dr.Li

!- =============
Sizing:Plant,
Boiler Loop, !- Plant or Condenser Loop Name
HEATING, !- Loop Type
80., !- Design Loop Exit Temperature {C}
15; !- Loop Design Temperature Difference {deltaC}
!- ======================

is all you need to enter in the IDF. The size and type of the heater is another matter.
=============================
In control engineering most controller has a built in hysteresis. However, you may not be able to specify it exactly, if it is not designed to be adjustable.

What you are trying to do is to design your own controller.
Dr. Li

To: energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:21:27 -0500
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff

If the avilability manager is associated with the heater, it turns off the heater.

If the avilability manager is asspcoated with the tank used side, it turns off the loop supply (pump).

Sensor node need not be in the same loop, but must respond of the change when the control is activated. If the temperature falls below the limit, the control is removed. Back to your thermostat problem.   Set-back is not the same as limits.

Dr. Li

To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: t.t111ir@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:36:16 +0000
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff

Dear memebers ,
ref : Document :EngineeringRefrence.pdf -983
"High temperature turn off :
The input object availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff is used to turn off a central air system or a plant loop if a sensed node temperature exceeds a temperature limit."

i want to know availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff , turn off the plant loop or just the turn off the component ?
for example : i set field :Sensor Node name : at the outlet of boiler .. in this plant loop there is pump and boiler as a component.

then availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff turn off boiler or plant loop ?if it turn off the plant loop it means it turned off pump too?

thanks

-- 
Richard A. Raustad
Senior Research Engineer
Florida Solar Energy Center
University of Central Florida
1679 Clearlake Road
Cocoa, FL  32922-5703
Phone:   (321) 638-1454
Fax:     (321) 638-1439 or 1010
Visit our web site at: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu

UCF - From Promise to Prominence: Celebrating 40 Years

__._,_.___

Primary EnergyPlus support is found at: http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at: http://www.energyplus.gov The group web site is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/ Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files. EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___