Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] no differences between results in PCM and reference

Please submit each variation of your model (internal source sink/no internal source sink/other experiments) to the Energy Plus HelpDesk http://energyplus.helpserve.com/

And see what they think, as they no more than I do...

After you get their input, if you are still haveing issues let me know and I will see what I can do..

Also if you would like I can have sample BioPCM mailed to you...

Also you emailed me off the list about customizing a weather file for the weather station located on your campus..

When simulating a Vertical axis wind turbine I came up (with the advise of Linda from the E+ team) with the following procedure, and think could glean from it what you would need to create your file>

Custom EPW

Download closest EPW file
Run and export INMBY (replace this step with your weather data)

Use weather file converter change EPW to CSV

Open CSV in Notepad ++
Remove header
Save as text file

Open in excel as comma delimited
Cut wind column, and place into custom excel sheet for editing this file type
(replace this step with your weather data)

Change all hours of the year by month to INMBY extrapolated data that have monthly averages over cut in speed.
(replace this step with your weather data)

Export as CSV that says nameEPW.CSV

Open EPW.CSV with notepad++
Replace header with custom header
Save as EPW.CSV

Open in weather converter, convert to EPW

Open new EPW file in weather file converter and generate stat file

Save .STAT file, and .EPW file with same name, and place in same folder

Open weather file in EP launch
Open IDF design conditions file in IDF editor, replace data in Windspire.IDF with design conditions from Weather file converter GENERATED idf
(replace this step with your weather data)

Edit IDF in text editor, to reflect the location

Run simulation.

Thanks

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Mohammad Kheradmand <mohammadkheradmand@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I did but, no changes. i don't have any convergence warning. but in both options ( partition layers symmetry and non symmetry) i got same result.

From: CleanTech Analytics <jeremiah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 9:26 PM

Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] no differences between results in PCM and reference

Mohammad,

It may be the construction internal source object I added to your file.
This is working for my model, but that may be because I have mine setup with PCM on one side allowing for thermal movement in one direction, while you have PCM on two sides. What I expect is the issue is that your dual sided PCM's are canceling each other out. Try going back to a standard construction, with your dual wall PCM construction layers, and the .5C/min DSC tested Q21 temperature enthalpy BioPCM materials property phase change object data I provided you.

Question, did you have any convergence warnings?

Keep me posted, and thanks

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 1:09 PM, Mohammad Kheradmand <mohammadkheradmand@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

in my case, we have two test cells which we created a partition in middle of it (one with incorporation PCM and another without PCM), now i try to simulate these two test cell for verifying experimental results, also we put a data logger to measure ambient temperature of cells in two direction (north and south surfaces).

i don't know, where is wrong in .idf file , maybe because of enthalpy-temperature (i put your example file data).

i try to check other parameters again.
regards

From: CleanTech Analytics <jeremiah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 8:07 PM

Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] no differences between results in PCM and reference

Put insulation, or nothing in place of brick is what I would do, as most buildings are "light weight" and would not have such brick.

I would say you are getting close.

Could you please describe in detail the goals of your project?

Thanks

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Mohammad Kheradmand <mohammadkheradmand@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I tried, i got reasonable result between reference and PCM almost 3 -4 degree also i put brick again in partition and result was same as before i did(no difference), but the differences between experimental and simulation is too high (almost 10-15 degree), what can i do?

From: CleanTech Analytics <jeremiah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 7:13 PM

Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] no differences between results in PCM and reference

Try this and let me know..

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Mohammad Kheradmand <mohammadkheradmand@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I try to retrify experimental result, i cant move to outer wall, so it is necessary to be on outer layer of partition, my weather file refer to 2005 i don't know, how can i convert to 2011 as a new one? also the thickness is fix .

thanks

From: CleanTech Analytics <jeremiah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] no differences between results in PCM and reference

Try moving your PCM to an outer wall, or changing your weather file, or changing the thickness of your PCM.
Also make a spreadsheet that compares the two in terms of percent, as small savings in kWh for a single day may be bigger savings then it seems by just looking at kWh.

Let me know if you still have the issue after experiments..

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Mohammad Kheradmand <mohammadkheradmand@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Could you please help me , what is wrong ? why i have, same results between two simulation?

regards

--
Jeremiah D. Crossett
CleanTech Analytics

503-688-8951
www.cleantechanalytics.com

This document may contain valuable information proprietary to CleanTech Analytics which is private and confidential. It may not be shared, copied, stored or transmitted in any form without the prior written consent of CleanTech Analytics

--
Jeremiah D. Crossett
CleanTech Analytics

503-688-8951
www.cleantechanalytics.com

This document may contain valuable information proprietary to CleanTech Analytics which is private and confidential. It may not be shared, copied, stored or transmitted in any form without the prior written consent of CleanTech Analytics

--
Jeremiah D. Crossett
CleanTech Analytics

503-688-8951
www.cleantechanalytics.com

This document may contain valuable information proprietary to CleanTech Analytics which is private and confidential. It may not be shared, copied, stored or transmitted in any form without the prior written consent of CleanTech Analytics

--
Jeremiah D. Crossett
CleanTech Analytics

503-688-8951
www.cleantechanalytics.com

This document may contain valuable information proprietary to CleanTech Analytics which is private and confidential. It may not be shared, copied, stored or transmitted in any form without the prior written consent of CleanTech Analytics

Jeremiah D. Crossett

CleanTech Analytics

503-688-8951

www.cleantechanalytics.com

This document may contain valuable information proprietary to CleanTech Analytics which is private and confidential. It may not be shared, copied, stored or transmitted in any form without the prior written consent of CleanTech Analytics