Jeremiah,
I don't want to get into a pissing contest here, but are you sure you want to promote "ease of use" as one of
reasons to go to EnergyPlus? The Surface Temperature Routine in DOE-2 is extremely simple to apply - you just
add a single command of INSIDE-SURF-TEMP=YES to the input file for the space of interest, and you'll get a big
file with all the temperatures for all the surfaces.
The mention of the back calculation was just to explain how that was possible. The Function was something I wrote to calculate PMV using these surface temperatures. Yes, I'm aware that very few people will ever want to delve into DOE-2 that deeply, but now that it's written, if anyone's interested they can plug that into their DOE-2 input file, just like how people plug in EnergyPlus objects in their IDF all the time. The main reason this feature is not well known is because it came in at a time (1995) when funding for DOE-2 completely evaporated, including even for maintenance, so the only mention was an article in the User News by the creator (Marcus Koschenz of EMPA).
Joe
Joe Huang White Box Technologies, Inc. 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D Moraga CA 94556 yjhuang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.whiteboxtechnologies.com (o) (925)388-0265 (c) (510)928-2683 "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
On 4/23/2012 5:18 PM, CleanTech Analytics wrote:
A- Joe, you got me again, hats off to you as you are correct as usual...
What a process that backwards from surface temperature calculation concept is, I wonder who aside from you founders of the industry could do such a thing, I remember your recent post to the eQuest lists it did not seem like many people had much of an idea as to how to do such a thing. I remember reading your how to and thinking that it sounded harder than learning the basics of Energy Plus, and considering the majority of DOE2 users only know how to use the engine with an interface I feel that they may be more likely to botch such a thing by trying rather then just using the Energy Plus object that is ready to use.
I have no doubts that DOE2 is useful, and that the functions of DOE2.1E are excellent, but most users of Energy Pro would not be very likely to get past that 5% of the potential you mentioned.
Best regards-
Jeremiah D. CrossettCleanTech Analytics503-688-8951This document may contain valuable information proprietary to CleanTech Analytics which is private and confidential. It may not be shared, copied, stored or transmitted in any form without the prior written consent of CleanTech Analytics
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Joe Huang <yjhuang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jeremiah,
EnergyPro is an interface that runs DOE-2.1E, so it doesn't make much sense to compare it to EnergyPlus. All the limitations that you're describing apply only to the interface, not the core program. DOE-2 has always had explicit geometry since Day 1. As for surface temperatures, that can also be extracted from 2.1E and I've used that capability to do PMV calculations more than a decade ago. These are not "work-arounds", but fully using the capabilities of DOE-2.
And if you consider text editing a "work around", then what would you call editing the IDF ?
Even the developer of eQUEST, which arguably is the most capable and integrated interface developed so far, estimates that his interface utilizes only 5-10% of the full capabilities of the root program (DOE-2.2) itself.
Joe
Joe Huang White Box Technologies, Inc. 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D Moraga CA 94556 yjhuang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.whiteboxtechnologies.com (o) (925)388-0265 (c) (510)928-2683 "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
On 4/23/2012 1:57 PM, CleanTech Analytics wrote:Sorry If I seemed snappy, Good luck learning Energy plus, and also I have seen Energy Pro Files translated to Energy Plus before, if that would be helpful I can send you the contact to the person who I have seen produce Energy Pro to Energy Plus conversions, the reason Energy pro can not do PMV calcs, and also an issue in conversion is Energy Pro creates a box rather then real geometry so the surface temperature calculations needed to calculate PMV is not possible. I have heard of "work around" for eQuest, but not for Energy pro, but hey you have made it this far, so might-as well try out Energy Plus, eQuest, Energy Pro and other DOE2 tools in my opinion are deceptively simple to get started with, then when your deep into your model you run into a limitation in the software, a rarely occurring in Energy Plus.
Best regards
Jeremiah D. CrossettCleanTech AnalyticsThis document may contain valuable information proprietary to CleanTech Analytics which is private and confidential. It may not be shared, copied, stored or transmitted in any form without the prior written consent of CleanTech Analytics
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Jean marais <jeannieboef@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I was about to say the same as Linda. In your energyplus folder that comes when you install energyplus, there is a documents subfolder. The main document for referal is the inputoutput referance guide (io ref). search for the object called PEOPLE. This will show you which fields must be filled in to ask the program to calculate comfort factors. Look at the outputs of this object. There you will find a list of output variables that must be declared in your input file (idf) for the program to output these (you ask the program for the outputs you want, not all at once).
If you are really getting started, I would suggest doing the excersizes in the "getting started" documentation and/or downloading a trial version of Design Builder (very good user interface) to get a taste of what is all possible with the energyplus software. Use Design Builder also to export the idf file to learn the effects of your actions. And look at the many example idf files in the energyplus examples folder (also comes with the install).
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