Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Simulating an ice hockey rink

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Karen Walkerman <kwalkerman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Lukas,

I modeled an existing ice rink facility with eQuest and had excellent results. It's been a number of years so I don't remember all of the details, but I was able to model all the basics, air stratification, Zamboni load, airspeed, subfloor heaters. I wasn't able to model desicant dehumidification, which was the only major downfall.

--
Karen

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 2:00 PM, rokkas80 <lukas.rokka@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Thank you Jeff, I'll check those papers.

James, you right it's quite a challenge. But there are so many factors to consider with a hockey arena that whole building simulations seems the right way to go in the long term.

Karen, thank you for the hint. I'm not familiar with eQuest but I'll look into that. Did you find the simulations useful and reliable?

I'm not going to start modeling today, just looking into the possibilities and benefits of an whole building simulation and trying to estimate how much work and money it requires.

The sport center I'm working with has 3 hockey rinks and 2 "bandy rinks" (don't know the English name, I think just we Scandinavians and Russians play this game but the ice sheet is about 4 times larger that of an ice hockey rink), 1 outdoor all-year around football arena and lots of other less energy consuming facilities. There exist quite good hourly energy consumption data on most facilities, refrigerators and heat pumps.

Especially the bandy arena would be hard to model with it's volume of about 150 000 m3, having almost natural conditions at some parts with a strong temperature stratification of the air.

Regards,
Lukas Lundström

--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Karen Walkerman wrote:
>
> Hi Lukas,
>
> I have modeled a few ice rinks, although in eQuest (which has the ability
> to model ice rinks). Although I prefer EnergyPlus for most projects,
> eQuest may be the better tool for this project.
>
> --
> Karen
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Jim Dirkes
> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Lukas,****

> >
> > I have not modeled an ice rink, but it would be a big challenge! I
> > commissioned one about 20 years ago, however, and still have some reference
> > material, so I attached it here. Jeff's comments echo completely true,
> > considering that a Zamboni resurfacer melts the entire surface each time it
> > is used.****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > *James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP**
> > **www.buildingperformanceteam.com*http://www.buildingperformanceteam.com/>
> > *
> > **Energy Analysis, Commissioning & Training Services**
> > *1631 Acacia Drive, Grand Rapids, MI 49504 USA
> > 616 450 8653****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > *From:* EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> > EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Haberl
> > *Sent:* Monday, March 04, 2013 10:05 AM
> > *To:* EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > *Subject:* RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Simulating an ice hockey rink****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ****
> >
> > Hello,****
> >
> > ****

> >
> > FYI, a paper on this was written in 1985 that used DOE-2 simulations that
> > estimated the rink by adjusting the UA(deltaT) to match energy use data of
> > the compresors collected on site. Problem with the building was that the
> > ice rink was right above the women's locker room, which placed the cold
> > radiative surface in a bad place. One of the largest "loads" was the
> > Zamboni machine, which resurfaced the rink, and thereby had to be scheduled.
> > ****
> >
> > ****

> >
> > Haberl, J., Claridge, D. 1985. "Retrofit Energy Studies of a Recreation
> > Center," *ASHRAE Transactions-Research,* Vol. 91, Pt. 2, pp. 1421 - 1433
> > (June). ****
> >
> > ****

> >
> > Additional material can be found another paper, that discusses how an
> > empirical model and an expert system was used to predict on-going problems.
> > ****
> >
> > ****

> >
> > Haberl, J., Claridge, D. 1987. "An Expert System for Building Energy
> > Consumption Analysis: Prototype Results,"* ASHRAE Transactions-Research, *Vol.
> > 93, Pt. 1, pp. 979 - 998 (January). ****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > Jeff****
> >
> > ****

> >
> > 8=! 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=( 8=) 8=() 8=) 8=| 8=) :=') 8=)8=?
> > Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D.,P.E.,FASHRAE,FIBPSA,........jhaberl@...<........jhaberl@...>

> > Professor............................................................Office
> > Ph: 979-845-6507
> > Department of Architecture.............................Lab Ph:979-845-6065
> > Energy Systems Laboratory.............................FAX: 979-862-2457
> > Texas A&M University.....................................77843-3581
> > College Station, Texas, USA, 77843..................URL:www.esl.tamu.edu
> > 8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=() 8=) :=) 8=) 8=! 8=) 8=? 8=)8=0***
> > *
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [

> > EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of rokkas80 [
> > lukas.rokka@...]
> > *Sent:* Monday, March 04, 2013 8:51 AM
> > *To:* EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > *Subject:* [EnergyPlus_Support] Simulating an ice hockey rink****
> >
> > ****

> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Does anyone here have experience from modeling an indoor ice hockey rink?
> > I'm wondering how to model the Ice sheet in EnergyPlus?
> >
> > Lukas Lundström
> > https://sites.google.com/site/weatherconverter/****
> >
> > ****
> >
> >
> >
>

Javed Iqbal, LEED AP, CEA

Energy Analyst