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[EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Simulating an ice hockey rink

Thank you Javed, I had a quick look on that example rink of yours and really looks interesting. I suppose I've to learn eQuest (not very fond of those imperial metrics though). 

For others interested in modeling of ice rinks, I noticed that IDA ICE 4.5 has an "Ice rink pools"-extension in beta release.  

Regards,
Lukas Lundström
 

--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Javed Iqbal <eee.javed@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Lukas,
> 
> 
> I know some of the senior analyst they used eQuest for Ice rink modeling
> and there results were well validated with the design numbers though i
>  haven't explored it personally:) Also find an example equest file for
> Icerink.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Karen Walkerman <kwalkerman@...>wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi Lukas,
> >
> > I modeled an existing ice rink facility with eQuest and had excellent
> > results.  It's been a number of years so I don't remember all of the
> > details, but I was able to model all the basics, air stratification,
> > Zamboni load, airspeed, subfloor heaters.  I wasn't able to model desicant
> > dehumidification, which was the only major downfall.
> >
> > --
> > Karen
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 2:00 PM, rokkas80 <lukas.rokka@...> wrote:
> >
> >> **
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you Jeff, I'll check those papers.
> >>
> >> James, you right it's quite a challenge. But there are so many factors to
> >> consider with a hockey arena that whole building simulations seems the
> >> right way to go in the long term.
> >>
> >> Karen, thank you for the hint. I'm not familiar with eQuest but I'll look
> >> into that. Did you find the simulations useful and reliable?
> >>
> >> I'm not going to start modeling today, just looking into the
> >> possibilities and benefits of an whole building simulation and trying to
> >> estimate how much work and money it requires.
> >>
> >> The sport center I'm working with has 3 hockey rinks and 2 "bandy rinks"
> >> (don't know the English name, I think just we Scandinavians and Russians
> >> play this game but the ice sheet is about 4 times larger that of an ice
> >> hockey rink), 1 outdoor all-year around football arena and lots of other
> >> less energy consuming facilities. There exist quite good hourly energy
> >> consumption data on most facilities, refrigerators and heat pumps.
> >>
> >> Especially the bandy arena would be hard to model with it's volume of
> >> about 150 000 m3, having almost natural conditions at some parts with a
> >> strong temperature stratification of the air.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Lukas Lundström
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Karen Walkerman wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Lukas,
> >> >
> >> > I have modeled a few ice rinks, although in eQuest (which has the
> >> ability
> >> > to model ice rinks). Although I prefer EnergyPlus for most projects,
> >> > eQuest may be the better tool for this project.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Karen
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Jim Dirkes
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > **
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Lukas,****
> >>
> >> > >
> >> > > I have not modeled an ice rink, but it would be a big challenge! I
> >> > > commissioned one about 20 years ago, however, and still have some
> >> reference
> >> > > material, so I attached it here. Jeff's comments echo completely true,
> >> > > considering that a Zamboni resurfacer melts the entire surface each
> >> time it
> >> > > is used.****
> >> > >
> >> > > ** **
> >> > >
> >> > > ** **
> >> > >
> >> > > *James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP**
> >> > > **www.buildingperformanceteam.com*
> >> http://www.buildingperformanceteam.com/>
> >> > > *
> >> > > **Energy Analysis, Commissioning & Training Services**
> >> > > *1631 Acacia Drive, Grand Rapids, MI 49504 USA
> >> > > 616 450 8653****
> >> > >
> >> > > ** **
> >> > >
> >> > > *From:* EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> >> > > EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Haberl
> >> > > *Sent:* Monday, March 04, 2013 10:05 AM
> >> > > *To:* EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > *Subject:* RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Simulating an ice hockey rink****
> >> > >
> >> > > ** **
> >> > >
> >> > > ****
> >> > >
> >> > > Hello,****
> >> > >
> >> > > ****
> >>
> >> > >
> >> > > FYI, a paper on this was written in 1985 that used DOE-2 simulations
> >> that
> >> > > estimated the rink by adjusting the UA(deltaT) to match energy use
> >> data of
> >> > > the compresors collected on site. Problem with the building was that
> >> the
> >> > > ice rink was right above the women's locker room, which placed the
> >> cold
> >> > > radiative surface in a bad place. One of the largest "loads" was the
> >> > > Zamboni machine, which resurfaced the rink, and thereby had to be
> >> scheduled.
> >> > > ****
> >> > >
> >> > > ****
> >>
> >> > >
> >> > > Haberl, J., Claridge, D. 1985. "Retrofit Energy Studies of a
> >> Recreation
> >> > > Center," *ASHRAE Transactions-Research,* Vol. 91, Pt. 2, pp. 1421 -
> >> 1433
> >> > > (June). ****
> >> > >
> >> > > ****
> >>
> >> > >
> >> > > Additional material can be found another paper, that discusses how an
> >> > > empirical model and an expert system was used to predict on-going
> >> problems.
> >> > > ****
> >> > >
> >> > > ****
> >>
> >> > >
> >> > > Haberl, J., Claridge, D. 1987. "An Expert System for Building Energy
> >> > > Consumption Analysis: Prototype Results,"* ASHRAE
> >> Transactions-Research, *Vol.
> >> > > 93, Pt. 1, pp. 979 - 998 (January). ****
> >> > >
> >> > > ****
> >> > >
> >> > > Jeff****
> >> > >
> >> > > ****
> >>
> >> > >
> >> > > 8=! 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=( 8=) 8=() 8=) 8=| 8=) :=') 8=)8=?
> >> > > Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D.,P.E.,FASHRAE,FIBPSA,........jhaberl@
> >> ...<........jhaberl@>
> >>
> >> > >
> >> Professor............................................................Office
> >> > > Ph: 979-845-6507
> >> > > Department of Architecture.............................Lab Ph:
> >> 979-845-6065
> >> > > Energy Systems Laboratory.............................FAX:
> >> 979-862-2457
> >> > > Texas A&M University.....................................77843-3581
> >> > > College Station, Texas, USA, 77843..................URL:
> >> www.esl.tamu.edu
> >> > > 8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=() 8=) :=) 8=) 8=! 8=) 8=? 8=)8=0***
> >> > > *
> >> > > ------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > > *From:* EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [
> >>
> >> > > EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of rokkas80 [
> >> > > lukas.rokka@]
> >> > > *Sent:* Monday, March 04, 2013 8:51 AM
> >> > > *To:* EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > *Subject:* [EnergyPlus_Support] Simulating an ice hockey rink****
> >> > >
> >> > > ****
> >>
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi,
> >> > >
> >> > > Does anyone here have experience from modeling an indoor ice hockey
> >> rink?
> >> > > I'm wondering how to model the Ice sheet in EnergyPlus?
> >> > >
> >> > > Lukas Lundström
> >> > > https://sites.google.com/site/weatherconverter/****
> >> > >
> >> > > ****
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Javed Iqbal, LEED AP, CEA
> Energy Analyst
>




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