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Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Coil:Cooling:DX:TwoSpeed and SHR



Well you need to remember that the input SHR is only the "rated" SHR at the rating condition which is at one specific test rating opperating point. That's the case for all the inputs. Curves then deturmine what the actuals are at all other points during simulation. By default, you don't need to enter curves for the SHR, but you can.

gute Besserung,

Jean

2017-07-12 14:58 GMT+02:00 'Edward G. Lyon' eglyon@xxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support] <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
 

Sorry to be a little slow responding, currently having some medical issues.

 

From the number of errors, it appears every calculation over the time period has an RH  calc error.  A larger SHR makes it go away ???. It seems to me that a lower SHR would make it go away but you may loose total sensible cooling. To target temperature.

 

Ned Lyon, P.E. (MA, WV)
Staff Consultant

SIMPSON GUMPERTZ & HEGER
781.907.9000 main
781.907.9350 direct 
617.285.2162 mobile 
781.907.9009 fax
www.sgh.com

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From: EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 2:37 PM


To: EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Coil:Cooling:DX:TwoSpeed and SHR

 

 

...and you've probably already considered this, but do you know if the lower fan speed coincides with low speed DX operation (when the SHR errors occur)?

 

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 1:44 PM, 'Edward G. Lyon' eglyon@xxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support] <EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

The fan is variable speed and does run at a lower speed at times.  I am running a short hot period to check SHR.  If I put low SHR values I get RH calculation failures.  I have had to put in SHR greater than coil calculation to fix RH calculation for some reason.

kNed Lyon, P.E. (MA, WV)
Staff Consultant

SIMPSON GUMPERTZ & HEGER
781.907.9000 main
781.907.9350 direct 
617.285.2162 mobile 
781.907.9009 fax
www.sgh.com

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From: EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 10:42 AM


To: EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Coil:Cooling:DX:TwoSpeed and SHR

 

 

Ned,

This thread and, apparently, E+ assume that you have lower airflow at the lower DX capacity stage. Is that true for your model? (i.e., is fan speed constant?)

 

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:34 AM, 'Edward G. Lyon' eglyon@xxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support] <EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Thanks for your full explanation?I agree?my my issue is that the inputs for a two speed D coil are not following the game plan.  Increasing SHR stops humidity calculation errors?

 

Ned Lyon, P.E. (MA, WV)
Staff Consultant

SIMPSON GUMPERTZ & HEGER
781.907.9000 main
781.907.9350 direct 
617.285.2162 mobile 
781.907.9009 fax
www.sgh.com

Send Files

From: EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 4:05 PM
To: EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Coil:Cooling:DX:TwoSpeed and SHR

 

 

Edward,

 

DX cooling coils that are running at lower speed, which also implies lower supply air flow rate, is expected to have lower SHR compared to higher speed. The main reason is that the whole coil surface area is available for lower supply air flow, hence a better coil surface and air contact that enhances moisture removal. When the air has more contact with the cold coil surface, the fraction of supply air approaching the apparatus dew point increases, which enhances de-humidification potential.

 

Some humidity control features of DX system allow the supply fan to run at reduced supply air flow rate to enhance de-humidification potential.     

 

Hope this helps, 

Bereket

 

 

From: "'Edward G. Lyon' eglyon@xxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support]" <EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com>
To: "'EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com'" <EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 3:18 PM
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Coil:Cooling:DX:TwoSpeed and SHR

 

 

I am modeling an existing building with several roof top VAV systems.  I have system model numbers so I did not autosize any of the Coil:Cooling:DX:TwoSpeed system.  The SHR inputs for the model and error messages running the model make no sense to me:

 

Manufacturer data says SHR at low speed is much lower than at high speed (makes perfect sense to me), but E+ complains if the high speed and low speed SHR differ too much.

 

Using manufacturer data to calculate SHR inputs results in psychrometric calculation errors about RH exceeding 100%.  While the error message would suggest that more latent cooling is needed (lower SHR) the actual fix is to increase the SHR (less latent cooling).

 

So my model runs now runs without complaints with high speed SHR = low speed SHR = 0.77, not close to the manufacturer data. I would appreciate it if anyone could explain this E+ logic to me this.    

 

Ned Lyon, P.E. (MA, WV)
Staff Consultant

SIMPSON GUMPERTZ & HEGER 
     | Engineering of Structures and Building Enclosures

41 Seyon Street, Building 1, Suite 500
Waltham, MA 02453

 



 

--

James V Dirkes II, CEO / President
The Building Performance Team Inc.
1631 Acacia Dr, GR, MI 49504

 

(alphabet soup of efforts for excellence: PE, BEMP, BCxP, LEED AP)

Direct / Mobile: 616.450.8653
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They love truth when it enlightens them, they hate  truth when it accuses them? They llove truth when it reveals itself, and hate it when it reveals them.

 

 

 

 

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--

James V Dirkes II, CEO / President
The Building Performance Team Inc.
1631 Acacia Dr, GR, MI 49504

 

(alphabet soup of efforts for excellence: PE, BEMP, BCxP, LEED AP)

Direct / Mobile: 616.450.8653
jim@buildingperformanceteam.com

Website l  LinkedIn

Coffee conversation:

They love truth when it enlightens them, they hate  truth when it accuses them? They love truth when itt reveals itself, and hate it when it reveals them.

 

 

 

 

.




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Posted by: Jean Marais <jeannieboef@xxxxxxxxx>


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