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Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: QUESTION ON AIR COOLED CONDENSER INLET TEMPERATURE

To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: QUESTION ON AIR COOLED CONDENSER INLET TEMPERATURE
From: Richard Raustad <RRaustad@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:21:11 -0400
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Also consider scheduling the cooling coils off in winter and allowing 
the space temperature to float above the setpoint. If the setpoint is 
20C, the space temperature could reasonable float to 24C or more without 
adversely affecting occupant comfort. If this occurred during your 
simulation and the cooling coils were schedule on, the chiller would 
turn on and you would see the error you describe. You could also use a 
dual setpoint thermostat to maintain specific conditions all year if the 
space temperature in winter floated to an unreasonable temperature.

Richard Raustad wrote:

> For some reason the chiller is operating on the winter design day. Check
> the output for the winter design day to determine the reason that the
> chiller is turning on. Schedules for WinterDesignDay may inadvertently
> represent a much greater load than will be actually used during the
> winter simulation. For example, a schedule for equipment loads may look
> like this:
>
>   ELECTRIC EQUIPMENT,
>     North Zone,              !- Zone Name
>     EquipmentSch,            !- SCHEDULE Name
>     5000.0,                  !- Design Level {W}
>     0.0000000E+00,           !- Fraction Latent
>     0.3000000,               !- Fraction Radiant
>     0.0000000E+00,           !- Fraction Lost
>     0;                       !- End-Use Category
>
>   SCHEDULE:COMPACT,
>     EquipmentSch,            !- Name
>     Fraction,                !- ScheduleType
>     Through: 12/31,
>     For: WeekDays,
>     Until: 8:00, 0.0,
>     Until: 18:00, 0.5,
>     Until: 24:00, 0.0,
>     For: WeekEnds,
>     Until: 24:00, 0.0,
>     For: AllOtherDays,
>     Until: 24:00, 1.0;
>   
> This schedule layout would simulate equipment operating at 50% capacity
> from 8am to 6pm on weekdays and off on weekends during the actual
> simulation. All other days (Holidays, SummerDesignDay, WinterDesignDay,
> CustomDay1, CustomDay2) will operate the equipment at full capacity 24
> hrs per day. A more realistic schedule would turn off the equipment on a
> winter design day and turn on the equipment on a summer design day to
> determine the extreme loads for adequate equipment sizing:
>
>   ELECTRIC EQUIPMENT,
>     North Zone,              !- Zone Name
>     EquipmentSch,            !- SCHEDULE Name
>     2500.0,                  !- Design Level {W}
>     0.0000000E+00,           !- Fraction Latent
>     0.3000000,               !- Fraction Radiant
>     0.0000000E+00,           !- Fraction Lost
>     0;                       !- End-Use Category
>
>   SCHEDULE:COMPACT,
>     EquipmentSch,            !- Name
>     Fraction,                !- ScheduleType
>     Through: 12/31,
>     For: WeekDays,
>     Until: 8:00, 0.0,
>     Until: 18:00, 1.00,
>     Until: 24:00, 0.0,
>     For: WeekEnds,
>     Until: 24:00, 0.0,
>     For: WinterDesignDays,
>     Until: 24:00, 0.0;
>     For: AllOtherDays,
>     Until: 24:00, 1.0;
>
> Make sure your schedules are not the cause for chiller operation on the
> winter design day. This applies to occupancy, lighting, and equipment
> schedules as well. The schedules you use for simulation are very
> powerful and represent to the best of your knowledge the actual
> operation of the building in question. Although the operation of
> chillers during winter months is dependent on the building being
> simulated, it is possible to require cooling during the colder months of
> the year. An architect or engineer would then assure the proper type of
> cooling equipment such that the equipment would not be damaged if
> operated on these cold days (the reason for the warning you are seeing).
> If the equipment actually operates during the winter months consider
> switching to a water-cooled chiller or contact manufacturers to
> determine the correct capacity and EIR curves for this climate (include
> the impact of emergency heaters on chiller performance [you can then
> disregard the warnings]). As I said before, EnergyPlus does not
> currently support freeze protection for chillers and it is up to the
> user to provide the correct performance curves for the specific 
> application.
>
>
> zhaicq98 wrote:
>
> > Hi, Richard,
> >
> > Thanks for your response. Actually I am not really operating the
> > chiller in cold days. Right now I am just running the file for winter
> > and summer design days, in order to get the auto-sizing information.
> > I am hoping there is be no such warning when I do the entire year
> > simulation.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Chaoqin
> >
> >
> > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Richard Raustad
> > <RRaustad@F...> wrote:
> > > Why is your chiller operating on such a cold day?
> > >
> > > Air-cooled chillers should not be used in cold climates without
> > freeze
> > > protection. Energyplus does not currently support freeze protection
> > on
> > > electric chillers. If you want to continue to use the air-cooled
> > > electric EIR chiller, limit the minimum outdoor temperature in the
> > > Cooling Capacity Function of Temperature Curve and Energy Input to
> > > Cooling Output Ratio Function of Temperature Curve objects to 0C
> > and
> > > verify that the output makes sense (i.e. Capacity and Power at this
> > low
> > > temperature is reasonable). Limiting the minimum outdoor
> > temperature
> > > "caps" the capacity and power at 0C and simulates the use of
> > heaters to
> > > maintain chiller performance. This heater power will not be
> > accounted
> > > for in the simulation. If the output makes sense you can disregard
> > the
> > > warnings. Otherwise change to a water cooled chiller where the
> > entering
> > > condenser water temperature can be better controlled.
> > >
> > > zhaicq98 wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I am simulating a system with an air-cooled electric chiller.
> > However I
> > > > got lots of warning messages, saying:
> > > >
> > > > ElectricEIRChillerModel:Air Cooled Condenser Inlet Temperature
> > below 0C
> > > >
> > > > What should I to with regard to these warnings? I am using the
> > chiller
> > > > in a relatively cold climate.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Chaoqin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > > >
> > > > The group web site is:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > > >
> > > > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the
> > > > appropriate folder in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > SPONSORED LINKS
> > > > Scheduling program software
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Scheduling+program+software&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=C
> > onstruction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting
> > +software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+
> > software&c=6&s=196&.sig=22tSUUIr5-y7NpdZEjRKyA>
> > > >       Construction software program
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Construction+software+program&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2
> > =Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounti
> > ng+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+managemen
> > t+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=jiIsH46YluTFGHTIjOuzOw>
> > > >       Payroll software program
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Payroll+software+program&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Cons
> > truction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+so
> > ftware+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+sof
> > tware&c=6&s=196&.sig=bpandTL_9PlIAsB2jxqmFQ>
> > > >
> > > > Accounting software program
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Accounting+software+program&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=C
> > onstruction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting
> > +software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+
> > software&c=6&s=196&.sig=l_rKIv6738s-oIrC1oXsng>
> > > >       Affiliate program software
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Affiliate+program+software&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Co
> > nstruction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+
> > software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+s
> > oftware&c=6&s=196&.sig=HsTX1ptWm-Hsew69JVLPdw>
> > > >       Program management software
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Program+management+software&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=C
> > onstruction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting
> > +software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+
> > software&c=6&s=196&.sig=LhdBC2v67EnHO-xmRhW6Uw>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Richard A. Raustad
> > > Senior Research Engineer
> > > Florida Solar Energy Center
> > > University of Central Florida
> > > 1679 Clearlake Road
> > > Cocoa, FL  32922-5703
> > > Phone:   (321) 638-1454
> > > Fax:     (321) 638-1439 or 1010
> > > Visit our web site at: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu
> > >
> > > UCF - From Promise to Prominence: Celebrating 40 Years
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > http://www.energyplus.gov
> >
> > The group web site is:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> >
> > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the
> > appropriate folder in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Scheduling program software
> > 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Scheduling+program+software&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=22tSUUIr5-y7NpdZEjRKyA 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Scheduling+program+software&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=22tSUUIr5-y7NpdZEjRKyA>> 
>
> >       Construction software program
> > 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Construction+software+program&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=jiIsH46YluTFGHTIjOuzOw 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Construction+software+program&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=jiIsH46YluTFGHTIjOuzOw>> 
>
> >       Payroll software program
> > 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Payroll+software+program&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=bpandTL_9PlIAsB2jxqmFQ 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Payroll+software+program&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=bpandTL_9PlIAsB2jxqmFQ>> 
>
> >
> > Accounting software program
> > 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Accounting+software+program&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=l_rKIv6738s-oIrC1oXsng 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Accounting+software+program&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=l_rKIv6738s-oIrC1oXsng>> 
>
> >       Affiliate program software
> > 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Affiliate+program+software&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=HsTX1ptWm-Hsew69JVLPdw 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Affiliate+program+software&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=HsTX1ptWm-Hsew69JVLPdw>> 
>
> >       Program management software
> > 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Program+management+software&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=LhdBC2v67EnHO-xmRhW6Uw 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Program+management+software&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=LhdBC2v67EnHO-xmRhW6Uw>> 
>
> >
> >
> >
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> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> -- 
> Richard A. Raustad
> Senior Research Engineer
> Florida Solar Energy Center
> University of Central Florida
> 1679 Clearlake Road
> Cocoa, FL  32922-5703
> Phone:   (321) 638-1454
> Fax:     (321) 638-1439 or 1010
> Visit our web site at: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu
>
> UCF - From Promise to Prominence: Celebrating 40 Years
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> http://www.energyplus.gov
>
> The group web site is:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
>
> Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the 
> appropriate folder in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Scheduling program software 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Scheduling+program+software&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=22tSUUIr5-y7NpdZEjRKyA> 
> 	Construction software program 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Construction+software+program&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=jiIsH46YluTFGHTIjOuzOw> 
> 	Payroll software program 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Payroll+software+program&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=bpandTL_9PlIAsB2jxqmFQ> 
>
> Accounting software program 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Accounting+software+program&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=l_rKIv6738s-oIrC1oXsng> 
> 	Affiliate program software 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Affiliate+program+software&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=HsTX1ptWm-Hsew69JVLPdw> 
> 	Program management software 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Program+management+software&w1=Scheduling+program+software&w2=Construction+software+program&w3=Payroll+software+program&w4=Accounting+software+program&w5=Affiliate+program+software&w6=Program+management+software&c=6&s=196&.sig=LhdBC2v67EnHO-xmRhW6Uw> 
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

-- 
Richard A. Raustad
Senior Research Engineer
Florida Solar Energy Center
University of Central Florida
1679 Clearlake Road
Cocoa, FL  32922-5703
Phone:   (321) 638-1454
Fax:     (321) 638-1439 or 1010
Visit our web site at: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu

UCF - From Promise to Prominence: Celebrating 40 Years



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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References:
- [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: QUESTION ON AIR COOLED CONDENSER INLET TEMPERATURE
  - From: zhaicq98
- Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: QUESTION ON AIR COOLED CONDENSER INLET TEMPERATURE
  - From: Richard Raustad
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