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RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Cntroller input data problem.

To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Cntroller input data problem.
From: "Michael J. Witte" <mjwitte@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:20:31 -0500
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All good points, but the temperatures reported in Tj's error messages do not 
indicate such a problem.  The sensed temperature is 17C and the actuator 
temperature is 7C.  The coil may be too small to meet the load, but it 
shouldn't be tripping this error.  Tj, please upload your input file to the 
yahoo files area or send it zipped to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx

Mike


On 3 Aug 2007 at 16:50, Griffith, Brent wrote:

> 
> 
> Okay, here are some things to check out.  My experience with this error
> is that it is usually problem in the condenser plant loop serving the
> chiller.  Report out some node temperatures and flow rates in the
> condenser plant loop as well as the chilled water loop and see if the
> chiller and cooling tower are working.  The sensed temperature of
> 22,288C in the message below is a clue that chiller isn't working. Often
> it is that some component or system is inadvertently scheduled off.
> Sometimes it is a subtle issue of "Active" or "Passive" settings on
> branches in the condenser loop causing flow to inadvertently bypass
> around a component.  
> 
> 
> 
> It is possible to get this error when the incoming outside air is very
> cold and the building needs little or no cooling.  Putting the heating
> coil in front of the cooling coil is important in this situation (a real
> chilled water coil could freeze!).  
> 
> 
> 
> If this error is only happening occasionally during an annual
> simulation, it is probably safe to ignore.  We all love it when models
> issue no scary warning messages.  But in my opinion, one has to lower
> their level of expectation and be prepared to live with warnings and
> even severe error messages.  While it is a good goal, you'll go crazy
> trying to eliminate every error in every model.  On big models, I am
> often forced to live with hundreds of warnings and tens of severe
> errors.  The really important errors will be fatal and the program will
> stop.  
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.  
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tjutw
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 3:34 PM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Cntroller input data problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> Thank you for your advice.
> 
> I have changed the sequence of heating coil and cooling coil. But I
> still got the same wrong message. 
> 
> By the way, the file is expanded by COMPACT HVAC. 
> 
> Could anyone help me solve this problem? Thank you in advance.
> 
> Tj Ywh
> 
> --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> , "berlinclownfish"
> <SPlamp@...> wrote:
> >
> > I've experienced the identical problem. The error relates to the 
> > arrangement of the AHU cooling coil installed prior the AHU heating 
> > coil. 
> > 
> > However, the arrangement in the AHU that I'm trying to model in fact 
> > has a reversed setup. This also means the reverse arrangement of each 
> > coil's controller in the class 'Air Distribution' under the 
> > tab 'CONTROLLER LIST' to comply with the simulation order.
> > 
> > In addition, when manually changing (I presume both of you created 
> > your input files with the help of a graphical interface) the order of 
> > both coils, you'll also have to change the inlet and outlet nodes on 
> > the remaining equipment (e.g. return fan, supply fan, etc.).
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Sandro
> > 
> > 
> > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> , "tjutw" <tjutw@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Everyone,
> > > 
> > > I also have the same problem.
> > > 
> > > ** Severe ** FindRootSimpleController: Controller error for
> > > controller = VAV SYS 2 COOLING COIL CONTROLLER
> > > ** ~~~ ** Occurrence info=CALGARY INT'L AB CAN WYEC2-B-25110
> > > WMO#=718770, 01/31 09:00 - 10:00
> > > ** ~~~ ** Controller function is inconsistent with user
> > > specified controller action = Reverse action
> > > ** ~~~ ** Actuator will be set to maximum action
> > > ** ~~~ ** Controller control type=Temperature
> > > ** ~~~ ** Controller temperature set point = 17.20 [C]
> > > ** ~~~ ** Controller sensed temperature = 17.37 [C]
> > > ** ~~~ ** Controller actuator mass flow rate set to 5.71 
> > [kg/s]
> > > ** ~~~ ** Controller actuator temperature = 7.00 [C]
> > > ** ~~~ ** Note: Chilled water coils should be reverse 
> > action
> > > and the entering chilled
> > > ** ~~~ ** water temperature (controller actuator
> > > temperature) should be below the setpoint temperature
> > > ** ~~~ ** Note: Hot water coils should be normal action and
> > > the entering hot
> > > ** ~~~ ** water temperature (controller actuator
> > > temperature) should be above the setpoint temperature
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I am also sure that the parameters for VAV SYS 2 COOLING COIL
> > > CONTROLLER are right, because most of time the program can run
> > > properly. It seem many factors can affect this error message. For
> > > example, if I add more internal heat in rooms, then this error
> > > message will not appear. I found this just because I input the 
> > wrong
> > > values for internal heat. 
> > > 
> > > Tj Ywh
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> , "love9787m" <love9787m@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ** Severe ** FindRootSimpleController: Controller error for 
> > > > controller = MAIN COOLING COIL CONTROLLER
> > > > In the error message, Controller sensed temperature is 22288.16 
> > [C].
> > > > I've never seen before like this problem and sensed temperature 
> > > > never reached this high temperature. 
> > > > To find out the method, which part or object should I sheckand
> > > > what is the reason for this problem?
> > > > 
> > > > ** ~~~ ** Occurrence info=ULSAN - KOR IWEC DATA 
> > WMO#=471520, 
> > > > 07/03 05:40 - 05:41
> > > > ** ~~~ ** Controller function is inconsistent with user 
> > > > specified controller action = Reverse action
> > > > ** ~~~ ** Actuator will be set to maximum action
> > > > ** ~~~ ** Controller control type=Temperature
> > > > ** ~~~ ** Controller temperature set point = 15.00 [C]
> > > > ** ~~~ ** Controller sensed temperature = 22288.16 [C]
> > > > ** ~~~ ** Controller actuator mass flow rate set to 1.10 
> > > > [kg/s]
> > > > ** ~~~ ** Controller actuator temperature = -120.36 [C]
> > > > ** ~~~ ** Note: Chilled water coils should be reverse 
> > > > action and the entering chilled
> > > > ** ~~~ ** water temperature (controller actuator 
> > > > temperature) should be below the setpoint temperature
> > > > ** ~~~ ** Note: Hot water coils should be normal action 
> > and 
> > > > the entering hot
> > > > ** ~~~ ** water temperature (controller actuator 
> > > > temperature) should be above the setpoint temperature
> > > > ** Warning ** Calculated Humidity Ratio Invalid 
> > (PsyWFnTdbTwbPb)
> > > > 
> > > > Please let me know the reason and method.
> > > > Thank you in advance.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
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> 
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> 
> Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the appropriate folder
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> 
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> Documentation link and press the "search" button.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


========================================================
Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
EnergyPlus Testing and Support      
EnergyPlus-Support@xxxxxxxx





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References:
- [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Cntroller input data problem.
  - From: tjutw
- RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Cntroller input data problem.
  - From: Griffith, Brent

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