I am just pointing out to you there are such devices.
Whether you have it or not, you have to find out. In an old system, the user control the valve to get the desired temperature in the room. There is no theremostat control for each room to contron the common system, apart from the possible local valve thermostat. (automatic or manual.) Most of the air system do not have individual room thermostat either. The temperature is adjusted by fixed damper using the ADU:uncontrolled (Direct Air). AHU has one theremostat control from the master zone. Dr. Li To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: t.t111ir@xxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 09:29:44 +0000 Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff Dr.Li , i think you think that my radiator in my system has thermostatic valve , but it doesnt have thermostatic valve , the plant controlled with water temperature , not zone air temperature
From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 11:18 PM Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff In that case, detach the DHW or assume that its working temperature can be ignored.
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx because the building that i want to simulate , it works according to controling plant temperature not zone air temperature ,
ok thanks
From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:41 PM Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff Go ahead and program what you wanted in the IDF and run it. It can be done. How? I do not think I want to spend any more time on email. As your earlier IDF was already running, I do not know why you keep wanting to control the plant temperature and ignoring the zone control and building errors. These numbers are in the plant sizing and boiler design. Of cource, you can use setpoint manager and EMS as well. Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: t.t111ir@xxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:03:15 +0000 Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff
From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:15 PM Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff Dr.Li :
in the building that i simulated :The real building or the IDF?
real building
the thermostat of boiler ( aquastat ) switch on/off the burner , and the thermostat surface on the main return pipe hot water loop that it controls hot water pump (HW pump ) and another thermostat on the domostic hot water pipe of coil tank for domostic hot water that controls when water of in the coil needs heat
If these are on your real building, they are thermometers, and do not do any controlling.
no there are nt thermometr , there are thermostat ,
thermometr just measured tempersture but thermostat conrols temperature,
If these are in the IDF, they should be properly entered with the correct names, controllers and managers. They are not necessary, as the boiler thermostat will do all these for you.
Dr.Li , what is boiler thermostat in energyplus ?is this design outlet water temperature in boiler class ? you mean when i enter design outler water temperature: 80 , it means when outlet boiler temperature is greater than 80 then boiler will be off and when less than 80 it will be on ?it doesn have any deadband?
You will not be able to use the set point managers and EMS, if you cannot distinguish a thermometer from a thermostat function.
i know what is different between thermostat and thermometer , thermometr just measured the temperature of that node , but themostat controls the temperature ,
I kept saying that you need not control the pump in the EPlus simulation, and you insist that it must stop at 80°C and start at 65°C and turn on and off the boiler fire. The system does not operate in your way.
i say boiler will be on and off with its temperature of burner ( if greater than 8o boiler will be off , and if less than 75 will be on , 5 is its deadband) and i say hw pumo contrl with its own thermostat that install in the return hot water pipe ,
You e-mail below showed a DHW schedule which is on all the time except at 3am. That was why I said that your pump will not turn off. You have not proved that the schedule was actually working in your IDF.
yes i know that , in my schedule the domostic hot water for 3 am is 0 then DHW pump will be off , but i talk about hw pump controll
Showing me some isolated schedules and objects will not help.
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: t.t111ir@xxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:05:54 +0000 Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff
From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 9:51 PM Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff An intermitent pump in EPlus is one which can be switched on and off. The pump itself does not sense the flow rate, the pressure or the temperature. It is switched on/off by another controller. could you please describe more little about what controller?
It may turn itself off, if the pressure is too high for safety reasons. This is why you have a by-pass branch in the loop. The thermostat turns off the burner.
the zone air thermostat turn off the burner? It should not turns off the pump at the same time, unless the pump has a by-pass. I do not know what switches it off in your real system.
Dr.Li : in the building that i simulated : the thermostat of boiler ( aquastat ) switch on/off the burner , and the thermostat surface on the main return pipe hot water loop that it controls hot water pump (HW pump ) and another thermostat on the domostic hot water pipe of coil tank for domostic hot water that controls when water of in the coil needs heat
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: t.t111ir@xxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 18:11:21 +0000 Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff
Dr.Li can you say what does intermitent pump in energyplus?
the pump will run at its capacity if a load is sensed and will shut off if there is no load on loop ,
can you explain it please ?
From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 9:36 PM Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff You have some input to the IDF for the DHW usage. I have no idea whether it is running or not in the simulation. Please do not show me a spread sheet for some measured results, and theb link my comments for the spread sheet to the simulation that I do not know. Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: t.t111ir@xxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:02:33 +0000 Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff
Dear Dr.Li ,
i dont undrestandt you said i was not using the DHW,
i use :
Schedule:Compact,
Sinks Flow Schedule, !- Name Any Number, !- Schedule Type Limits Name THROUGH: 12/31, !- Field 1 FOR: AllDays, !- Field 2 UNTIL: 1:00, 0.003, !- Field 4 UNTIL: 2:00, 0.001, !- Field 6 UNTIL: 3:00, 0, !- Field 8 UNTIL: 4:00, 0, !- Field 10 UNTIL: 5:00, 0.001, !- Field 12 UNTIL: 6:00, 0.028, !- Field 14 UNTIL: 7:00, 0.105, !- Field 16 UNTIL: 8:00, 0.1, !- Field 18 UNTIL: 9:00, 0.081, !- Field 20 UNTIL: 10:00, 0.059, !- Field 22 UNTIL: 11:00, 0.051, !- Field 24 UNTIL: 12:00, 0.037, !- Field 26 UNTIL: 13:00, 0.031, !- Field 28 UNTIL: 14:00, 0.026, !- Field 30 UNTIL: 15:00, 0.023, !- Field 32 UNTIL: 16:00, 0.033, !- Field 34 UNTIL: 17:00, 0.041, !- Field 36 UNTIL: 18:00, 0.063, !- Field 38 UNTIL: 19:00, 0.075, !- Field 40 UNTIL: 20:00, 0.066, !- Field 42 UNTIL: 21:00, 0.059, !- Field 44 UNTIL: 22:00, 0.046, !- Field 46 UNTIL: 23:00, 0.046, !- Field 48 UNTIL: 24:00, 0.025; !- Field 50 =========== ALL OBJECTS IN CLASS: WATERUSE:EQUIPMENT ===========
WaterUse:Equipment,
Sinks, !- Name Sinks, !- End-Use Subcategory 0.000158, !- Peak Flow Rate {m3/s} Sinks Flow Schedule, !- Flow Rate Fraction Schedule Name Sinks and Showers Temp Schedule; !- Target Temperature Schedule Name !- =========== ALL OBJECTS IN CLASS: WATERUSE:CONNECTIONS =========== WaterUse:Connections, Domestic Hot Water, !- Name Domestic Hot Water Inlet Node, !- Inlet Node Name Domestic Hot Water Outlet Node, !- Outlet Node Name , !- Supply Water Storage Tank Name , !- Reclamation Water Storage Tank Name , !- Hot Water Supply Temperature Schedule Name
, !- Cold Water Supply Temperature Schedule Name NONE, !- Drain Water Heat Exchanger Type , !- Drain Water Heat Exchanger Destination , !- Drain Water Heat Exchanger U-Factor Times Area {W/K} Sinks; !- Water Use Equipment 1 Name
Schedule:Compact,
Sinks and Showers Temp Schedule, !- Name Any Number, !- Schedule Type Limits Name THROUGH: 12/31, !- Field 1 FOR: AllDays, !- Field 2 UNTIL: 24:00, 40.56; !- Field 4 with this input i think i used DHW , and also i put :
PlantEquipmentOperation:HeatingLoad,
DHW Control Scheme, !- Name 0, !- Load Range 1 Lower Limit {W} 90000, !- Load Range 1 Upper Limit {W} DHW Plant Equipment; !- Range 1 Equipment List Name PlantEquipmentOperation:HeatingLoad,
Central Boiler Only, !- Name 0, !- Load Range 1 Lower Limit {W} 90000, !- Load Range 1 Upper Limit {W} heating plant; !- Range 1 Equipment List Name Dr.Li can you say what does intermitent pump in energyplus?
the pump will run at its capacity if a load is sensed and will shut off if there is no load on loop ,
can you explain it please ?
From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:09 PM Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff That was because you were not using the DHW, and you have 1 mega watt of furnace power. The boiler furnace does not control the HW pump. Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: t.t111ir@xxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:47:43 +0000 Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff
it is my experiment data , and i have HW pump off and boiler on
but in my result energyplus i dont have this state , HW pump never off
From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 4:38 PM Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff All four states are on the spread sheet. Sorry. I means row 11 an row 12 of the spread sheet.. The year was 2010. Was it that long ago? Dr. Li
Boiler HW pump (Starting on row 9)
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: t.t111ir@xxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 00:41:02 +0000 Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff
excuse me i dont undrestand : on line 11 and 12 " what you mean ?
now in iran is 4:10 AM
From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 4:06 AM Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff On line 11 and 12. and more later on. Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: t.t111ir@xxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 00:32:04 +0000 Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff
Dr.Li sorry for my mistake i dont see the result of HW pump off and boiler on ,
i dont undrestand why , ?
From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 3:55 AM Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff This is why you must not change names and create different names of the objects. "HW pump" is not the same as "pump" to me. I do not associate 3 and 4 with the spread sheet as they are only for two other variables. HW pump on and boiler off is a valid state, because the pump is not controlled by the boiler. The pump is on the supply side water loop, the boiler fire is on the heating tank source side, and is not in the water loop. Your statement on EPlus is not correct. Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: t.t111ir@xxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 23:57:37 +0000 Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff
From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 3:14 AM Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff thanks for looking that
The data looked normal. You should have taken the temperature values at the same time. yes i take it but in the excel file that i send you there is nt,
You did not record the DHW pump on the spread sheet. i recorded DHW pump , but in this file that i send you it is only HW pump HW pump off, boiler off not listed below,
i wrote wrong in number 3, sorry , it must be HW pump off ,boiler off there is on the spread sheet.
in my energyplus result i dont see number 4 case (HW pump on and boiler off ) i dont undrestand why?
) Hw pump off but boiler on (DHW is being heated)
2)Hw pump on and boiler on (Normal )
3)HW pump 0ff but boiler on (HW below set point, DHW not in use)
4)HW pump on and boiler off (Tank is hot enough for a while) i dont this case result ( HW pump on and boiler off ) in my energyplus result ,
This is an indication that you did not plan the experiment well, and do not record the actual condition on site. Instead of 0 and 1's on the spread sheet, you should combined the states and then list the meaning of each state. Two pumps and a boiler fire should give you 8 states.
yes you are right i have 8 states, but in the excel file that i sent you , there is only the result of HW pump and boiler Some states may not be possible, and then your should try to explain them. Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: t.t111ir@xxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 21:58:35 +0000 Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] availabilityManager:High temperaturTurnoff
please see the file that i attached :this is the real experiment data that i measured :
it shows some times all of below
1) Hw pump off but boiler on (DHW is being heated)
2)Hw pump on and boiler on (Normal )
3)pump 0ff but boiler on (HW below set point, DHW not in use)
4)pump on and boiler off (Tank is hot enough for a while)
__._,_.___ Primary EnergyPlus support is found at: http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at: http://www.energyplus.gov The group web site is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/ Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files. EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___ |