[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Annual Peak cooling variable ?
- To: EnergyPlus_Support <energyplus_support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Annual Peak cooling variable ?
- From: YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:30:19 -0400
- Delivered-to: mailing list EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Delivery-date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 06:30:23 -0600
- Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1348057822; bh=yKDmyy9vyADUU3KLx3FVP6ZtYyMZhBzQQrAlo7FxA6o=; h=Received:Received:X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Message-ID:To:Importance:In-Reply-To:References:X-OriginalArrivalTime:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:From:X-Yahoo-Profile:Sender:MIME-Version:Mailing-List:Delivered-To:List-Id:Precedence:List-Unsubscribe:Date:Subject:Reply-To:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Content-Type; b=PtiYKXPdpyPy88l3sR0lKxO1QDemJkjZz2t/rtf4snMZXw4fjSVpSlPs7gefzRZtz98NM1hO+TZFb2+01C41+ewBOqh4MK0dB6f7g35XuZYBDbp5HU5O2j3hdOL7FRZJ
- Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=TlKEzqKOWIWr6eL4tkIsmKmxwEviPDRKNH8o0Xqkv2+vGoiCZ4LUAU60HgXLLqyk8IsYHXzOcs6Wa6VY5MugYF+abuM1m6fS7B6QiB7qcPE2O70jdr+nBnac9PDdKBXI;
- Envelope-to: linda@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Importance: Normal
- In-reply-to: <CAPsP_xQytC-O6vH_kakVTe5Fn0ffoXCeWEx9g_Xhe9s7Pphj1A@mail.gmail.com>
- List-id: <EnergyPlus_Support.yahoogroups.com>
- List-unsubscribe: <mailto:EnergyPlus_Supportemail@example.com>
- Mailing-list: list EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; contact EnergyPlus_Support-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- References: <CAPsP_xQn3S3Ojdmin=dV6xcqCncQhkSomqNMwrJGvC3nRfnX5g@mail.gmail.com>,<D1168E6C4207B742BFC631BD652B1E922D1537ADAA@MAILBOX1.nrel.gov>,<CAPsP_xSG_htyzm7-0J-+4SpEHmaa3PrzaRqvqDvtpiPUJhwPSA@mail.gmail.com>,<5057a905.c2b9320a.1952.ffffe8c2SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>,<CAPsP_xT4V3sdOLehfrMhDAqfk_YwskkdLjBWrhNFggB+hW7EFw@mail.gmail.com>,<BLU162-W461A501EA9D21D05AF2C185940@phx.gbl> <CAPsP_xTHDUQz-PmEdKNeQW1e1O4cdFUeozTPTm+yupsZ1aXuCg@mail.gmail.com>,<BLU162-W617F0D01CA44D2AC7EE1C185940@phx.gbl> <CAPsP_xQkqJOCeqZ6N8Td5qiRW4cwZ6n1r=1NzuWXOcL0Ua-Beg@mail.gmail.com>,<BLU162-W46157EB81B1A0AC00941E85940@phx.gbl> <CAPsP_xS+xjYwfRkq4MoOK6pyY7MsLQbkzekUTR8+NZHYLxf2PA@mail.gmail.com>,<CAPsP_xQAA_smLD8p2Lr2S4qeD_tiTPqj6GgHTfyi9_Zv=yQYsg@mail.gmail.com>,<CAPsP_xQytC-O6vH_kakVTe5Fn0ffoXCeWEx9g_Xhe9s7Pphj1A@mail.gmail.com>
- Reply-to: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Sender: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I am only commenting on facts, most of the time. If I am not sure, I usually ask for more information.
In your case, a lot of things still does not make sense to me. That is why I only comments on part of your pose. So if you disagree, just agree to differ.
For example, you suddenly raised "Initial cost", etc. They are not in your simulation. So how do you optimize. For equipment, simply call a tender and pass the problem to the manufacturer or vandors. I have done that many times. You will collect lots of date from one of these exercises. You are ar the vendor end, and have to do all the hard work.
It is fine to claim that you know more real situation then me. I do not know how many countries you have travel to, and how many HVAC systems you have worked, on and how many PCM you have tested.
Min and max is a post-processing operation. It does not involves the .IDD. You can get the max and min from the ESO, if you have loaded into it, and add a small routine to add the values at the bottom of the .csv as in the sz.csv. If you are nodule developer, you can add that in yoursell and compile it for your own use.
I never ask for the max and min as you do it in your parametric runs. Because the decision link algorithm does not use the max and min value of every data. The algorithm for ASHRAE model is minimum HVAC for maximum comfort. You have implied that but I do not think that they are in your parametry runs.
My program will look for the condition of the solar position and look around the noon period, when the economiy cycle is not available, and find the maximum load. The building is modified and then try again. Therefore the maximum peak value is never used.
Look at windows for radiation load, walls for both radiation and convection, etc. Where does not annual maximum peak load fit in?
So far I have not seen any response saying that the maximum peak annual load should be an additional variable in the .RDD. I do not think you know which load you are talking about.
I did not say that you are wrong in asking. But, if you read through what I said, you will find that your demands are not precise or accurate or how to impliment in EPlus readily.
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 18:16:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Annual Peak cooling variable ?
Li, Don't take this the wrong way- as I have eminence respect for your advise to me and others-- You do not have to be right all the time- and should make a point to fully understand the problem before you speak down at people for actual real world issues that you do apparently not understand.
RE: The hourly average value is not useful to determine smallest system size- if an option was added to the idd and accessible from idf editor to output Min or Max than the problem would be solved and it would be useful for minimizing peak loads when performing parametric/iterative simulations. Yes a script could also solve the same issue, but then every user would have to re-do the same work over and over- so it makes more since for the developers to add the functionality.
Jeremiah D. Crossett | Senior Analyst | Phase Change Energy Solutions
120 E. Pritchard St. | Asheboro, NC 27203 | Mobile 503-688-8951
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:22 PM, Jeremiah Crossett <<mailto:jcrossett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>jcrossett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> The reason to add this as a feature is not for my project, but because it would be useful to be able to use the peak high/low values rather then annual hourly average for all users who do parametric or optimisation runs with objective functions of minimizing cooling or heating capacity.
> Jeremiah D. Crossett | Senior Analyst | Phase Change Energy Solutions
120 E. Pritchard St. | Asheboro, NC 27203 | Mobile 503-688-8951
> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Jeremiah Crossett <<mailto:jcrossett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>jcrossett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> You do realize that both Linda and Brent both already answered this post, and that they actually understood what the issue was and responded accordingly.
>> The HVAC size of 4000Btu/h is for each individual dorm room and the use of a Valance Unit ( <http://www.edwardsvalance.com/>http://www.edwardsvalance.com/ ;)
The goal of the study is to optimize the envelope to minimize cooling load so that it is close to or below this value.